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An Announcement Regarding Real Life Harassment

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Coffee Rocks
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#961 - 2014-03-28 22:57:37 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
A lot of snide comments and slanderous remarks being directed at Erotica 1, why if id say there are quite a few folks harassing this individual who has already received punishment for his actions.


Lotta that coming from the CSM guys too


*sips his coffee*

You never fly alone - Broadcast 4 Reps | Twitter: @thecoffeerocks | Steam: CoffeeRocks
stoicfaux
#962 - 2014-03-28 22:58:07 UTC
+1 to CCP.





Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#963 - 2014-03-28 22:58:43 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Well.

I think the topic is done with.

CCP stayed to their doctrines and within their established powers regarding the intent and purpose of their game and property. They have successfully protected it from an attack this week.

CSM showed their worth in this process and I am left rethinking my attitude about them.

Grief fetishists are sent a message while nobody's ganking/piracy/stealing/scamming playstyle is being changed or threatened (except in the minds of grief fetishists who use said activities as their "vehicle")


Well done. I think CCP and the CSM has earned their pay for the week. I take my leave to now consume fermented hops in mass quantities knowing that the game I care about will survive this, and that in spite of a small minority of people who could use some help, still has the best player base with some of the best people you could ever meet (and shoot - in game of course). Even the players I don't like, who have peeled my ships like bananas, I still hold in high regard.





AH HAHAHAHAHA

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

H aVo K
Tycheon Industries
#964 - 2014-03-28 22:59:10 UTC
Ssieth wrote:

CCP aren't changing any rules just restating them and urging people to be cautious when sailing close to the edges of the EULA/ToS.


Can I summarize your posts thusly:

"If you're a player who chooses to skirt the harassment portions of the EULA, you risk getting banned, and that is completely your fault for choosing to play in such a manner"

That distill it all down?
Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#965 - 2014-03-28 22:59:43 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Well.

I think the topic is done with.

CCP stayed to their doctrines and within their established powers regarding the intent and purpose of their game and property. They have successfully protected it from an attack this week.

CSM showed their worth in this process and I am left rethinking my attitude about them.

Grief fetishists are sent a message while nobody's ganking/piracy/stealing/scamming playstyle is being changed or threatened (except in the minds of grief fetishists who use said activities as their "vehicle")


Well done. I think CCP and the CSM has earned their pay for the week. I take my leave to now consume fermented hops in mass quantities knowing that the game I care about will survive this, and that in spite of a small minority of people who could use some help, still has the best player base with some of the best people you could ever meet (and shoot - in game of course). Even the players I don't like, who have peeled my ships like bananas, I still hold in high regard.





AH HAHAHAHAHA


Considering your signature, your response to this is particularly entertaining.

Aaaaaaand relax.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#966 - 2014-03-28 22:59:46 UTC
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:
Please everyone. The threadnaught of old is dead. CCP have spoken.

If you do not understand the announcement made by CCP. I would ask them for clarification. Not the General Discussion forum.

Please stop bringing up old topics from a locked thread. Or insulting other players for their own interpretation of what CCP said.


Ah youre a mod...

Oh wait no...

Um go away.

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

olan2005
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#967 - 2014-03-28 22:59:50 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Vance Armistice wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Ssieth wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Yes, because asking a representative of the people for clarification on an arbitrary ruling is just too much. And him trolling people is clearly what he was appointed to do right?

Without knowing where the lines are being drawn, CCP are leaving it open so they can selectively decide to ban people who have no possible way of knowing where they stand. It would be better to just ban it entirely and explicitly, since people would then know where they stand.
Repeatedly asking for clarification you've been told that someone cannot and will not provide, however, is pretty dumb and that kind of dumb wares anyone down eventually.

Yes, the line is a broad grey one rather than a nice neat one dividing black and white. As a result you'll need to exercise judgement and accept the consequences if you want to dance too close to the border of what is and isn't allowed. If you aren't prepared to accept those consequences then simply stay well clear of that line.
So we can get banned when someone has a sad, based purely off of the decision of the GM and the way the teary eyed "victim" making a strong case, and you think that's a good thing for the game?

You better damn well hope you never upset the wrong person, since we know how fairly the grey rules have been enforced in the past.


Take a breath...in..now...out... Repeat after me: "Unless I go completely outside the bounds of acceptable human behavior I will still be able to do all the things I currently enjoy doing in this game" That help?

If you want examples of unacceptable human behavior listen to some E1 recordings.
I have, and what I heard was the "victim" hurling real life threats, insults and racism around, as well as admitting to account sharing while the scammers were asking, quite politely, for the "victim" to perform various tasks. I mean **** me, if someone came up to me in the street and asked me to sing a few songs, I would start freaking out and screaming harassment at the top of my lungs.

So as far as I can see:
- Real life threats: Fine
- Personal Attacks: Fine
- Racism: Fine
- Account Sharing: Fine
- Asking for songs: Disallowed
- Asking for readings of selected texts: Disallowed

Seems like this can;t be right, so yeah, I'm gonna continue to ask for clarification. How many songs is "too many"?


ok where has anyone said that the racism and threats where allowed. Also in your opinion did this not go beyond a scam . Think about it the scammers got all his assets and still continued . At that point was this still a scam
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#968 - 2014-03-28 23:00:49 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:


Sokhars was the exception, not the rule. Most victims felt disgruntled but accepted they were scammed and given the run around. And as far as I can tell those bonus rooms would not be bannable, it's only because Erotica has been interpreted to have gone too far by continuing to ask for songs after Sokhar flipped out. I disagree that it was too far because it was Sokhar who acted unreasonably in response to being scammed. Further I do not approve of how personal you are getting over a minor disagreement over something in an online game, either you want a debate or you want insult throwing, decide.


So are you saying that so long as it only one person who has been humiliated or harassed then its okay?


How many miners/missioners have to die before THATS no longer ok?

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Prince Kobol
#969 - 2014-03-28 23:01:00 UTC
Klyith wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Klyith wrote:
I have one, single, very important question for CCP:
Did Sohkar, the victim of the harassment, file a petition about being harassed, either recently or back x months ago when it happened?


I know you never answer questions about petitions, but it's kinda important to know if the standard for policing out of game harassment is now "some busybody unrelated to either party can bring a thing to CCP's attention"?

Could I get a spy into PL, hang out on their comms until the next time Grath explodes in rage and berates some other dude, then send that recording to the harassment department? Grath has a well-know prior history of this thing! Can I go and find the Plungerhead pics and send those in to the good manners police? Can I get on comms with DHD and record him saying the N-word a lot and petition? Could someone else record MY trash talking and use it against me?


This isn't a case of wanting to know where the line is so I can edge up to it. I want to know if harassment is defined by the involved people or what RIPARD TEG and a FORUM THREADNAUGHT want to make an issue out of.


Did the Wiz report The Mittani?

If he didn't then I guess using your logic CCP should of not banned The Mittani.

Mittani's action was in a CCP venue where CCP had direct evidence of the problem.

Erotica1's harassment was on a separate service that has to be brought to CCP's attention for them to know about it. I only want to know if the standard is now that 3rd-party reporting of out-of-game violations is sufficient for action.




(Also he probably had petitioned Mittani before that and been rejected. The whole story behind The Wiz was that he got scammed and then sent a lot of mails to people in GF about killing himself because of it. Mittens and other people had reposted those mails for mockery, which likely led to distributed harassment from lots of people in GSF. Should he have been banned months before the drunken fanfest outrage?)


Pretty sure the Wiz never petitioned CCP about the The Mittani telling everybody to encourage him to commit suicide.

TheWiz had no idea what happened at fanfest until it hit the Eve Forums.

You could say, and many still do, the only reason CCP acted was because the outrage of the Eve community that somebody though it was funny to encourage other people to harass somebody who stated that he might kill himself.

Funny enough I actually think most of that was a complete over reaction, people do say stupid things when drunk and trying to show off in front of there peers.

I honestly believe there was never any intent on The Mittani's part for theWiz to actually commit suicide and the ban he received was fair.

E1's actions however were premeditated. His single goal was not the scam itself but to cause as much humiliation as he could
Jebediah Phoenix
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#970 - 2014-03-28 23:03:02 UTC
olan2005 wrote:

ok where has anyone said that the racism and threats where allowed. Also in your opinion did this not go beyond a scam . Think about it the scammers got all his assets and still continued . At that point was this still a scam


Have I gone beyond a gank if I trash talk in local? Having the guy sing a few songs is not much different. Plenty of things in this game are not done for any real gain.
Louis Robichaud
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#971 - 2014-03-28 23:03:04 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Louis Robichaud wrote:


1: They want to dance on that rule, tear harvest as much as possible without getting banned.

2: They don't have any empathy, and can't tell when they are being cruel to others.

3: They are dumb as door-nobs.



1: Cause this isnt a game.

2: Cause game = real life right?

3: HOW THE **** do you get off calling someone else dumb and you misspell DOORKNOB -.-


1: You pay EVE online to harvest tears? Interesting.

2: You are aware that real people play the game right? That a flesh and bone human being controls that rifter?

3: Ah, the curse of English as a second language strikes again! Or perhaps it's irony. The number of times I've seen someone criticizing someone's else "intellegence" (sic)... I guess it was bound to happen to me.

I blog a bit http://hspew.blogspot.ca
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#972 - 2014-03-28 23:03:34 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Klyith wrote:
I have one, single, very important question for CCP:
Did Sohkar, the victim of the harassment, file a petition about being harassed, either recently or back x months ago when it happened?


I know you never answer questions about petitions, but it's kinda important to know if the standard for policing out of game harassment is now "some busybody unrelated to either party can bring a thing to CCP's attention"?

Could I get a spy into PL, hang out on their comms until the next time Grath explodes in rage and berates some other dude, then send that recording to the harassment department? Grath has a well-know prior history of this thing! Can I go and find the Plungerhead pics and send those in to the good manners police? Can I get on comms with DHD and record him saying the N-word a lot and petition? Could someone else record MY trash talking and use it against me?


This isn't a case of wanting to know where the line is so I can edge up to it. I want to know if harassment is defined by the involved people or what RIPARD TEG and a FORUM THREADNAUGHT want to make an issue out of.


Marvelous!

Before leaving to the closest pub to drink myself in a happy sturpor I wanted to write my final post about what troubles me in this debacle. You sir did it for me and with much more panache I could ever muster up.
From the bottom of my dark hearth, thank you.
Also, my bartender thanks you too!

D. OUT.

Bear


I love you Danalee XD

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Kinis Deren
Mosquito Squadron
D0GS OF WAR
#973 - 2014-03-28 23:04:30 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Klyith wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Klyith wrote:
I have one, single, very important question for CCP:
Did Sohkar, the victim of the harassment, file a petition about being harassed, either recently or back x months ago when it happened?


I know you never answer questions about petitions, but it's kinda important to know if the standard for policing out of game harassment is now "some busybody unrelated to either party can bring a thing to CCP's attention"?

Could I get a spy into PL, hang out on their comms until the next time Grath explodes in rage and berates some other dude, then send that recording to the harassment department? Grath has a well-know prior history of this thing! Can I go and find the Plungerhead pics and send those in to the good manners police? Can I get on comms with DHD and record him saying the N-word a lot and petition? Could someone else record MY trash talking and use it against me?


This isn't a case of wanting to know where the line is so I can edge up to it. I want to know if harassment is defined by the involved people or what RIPARD TEG and a FORUM THREADNAUGHT want to make an issue out of.


Did the Wiz report The Mittani?

If he didn't then I guess using your logic CCP should of not banned The Mittani.

Mittani's action was in a CCP venue where CCP had direct evidence of the problem.

Erotica1's harassment was on a separate service that has to be brought to CCP's attention for them to know about it. I only want to know if the standard is now that 3rd-party reporting of out-of-game violations is sufficient for action.




(Also he probably had petitioned Mittani before that and been rejected. The whole story behind The Wiz was that he got scammed and then sent a lot of mails to people in GF about killing himself because of it. Mittens and other people had reposted those mails for mockery, which likely led to distributed harassment from lots of people in GSF. Should he have been banned months before the drunken fanfest outrage?)


Pretty sure the Wiz never petitioned CCP about the The Mittani telling everybody to encourage him to commit suicide.

TheWiz had no idea what happened at fanfest until it hit the Eve Forums.

You could say, and many still do, the only reason CCP acted was because the outrage of the Eve community that somebody though it was funny to encourage other people to harass somebody who stated that he might kill himself.

Funny enough I actually think most of that was a complete over reaction, people do say stupid things when drunk and trying to show off in front of there peers.

I honestly believe there was never any intent on The Mittani's part for theWiz to actually commit suicide and the ban he received was fair.

E1's actions however were premeditated. His single goal was not the scam itself but to cause as much humiliation as he could



Even though I'm firmly in the "Grrrr, goons!" camp, I think that's a very fair assessment.
Prince Kobol
#974 - 2014-03-28 23:04:44 UTC
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:


The game he was playing, I thought Eve was about shooting space pixels, I didn't realise it also involved being humiliated and then having a recording of it all placed on the internet.

Must of missed that part on the advertising, need to ask CCP to make a promo vid.


We've already gone over this, he was scammed and then given the run around for a little in TS, it's no worse than a trash talk in local. Plenty of others went through the same thing and didn't react like a lunatic because they understood being scammed and wound up is a possibility.


Right, I get you. So just because you found the one guy who wasn't mental stable enough to take it and blew his top, it shouldn't matter because everybody was okay with it.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#975 - 2014-03-28 23:07:45 UTC
Klyith wrote:
I have one, single, very important question for CCP:
Did Sohkar, the victim of the harassment, file a petition about being harassed, either recently or back x months ago when it happened?

As far as we know, no he did not. He said he almost forgot about the incident until he started getting mail about it.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#976 - 2014-03-28 23:07:52 UTC
Jayem See wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Kirsi Kirjasto wrote:
Chatting with a complete stranger on Teamspeak isn't "real life" as both parties are anonymous.


Wat.


By extension, this thread isn't real life.


Nor is this game, as much problem ppl here seem to have with the whole separating IRL with game lately. ****, when I read this thread to start with, I thought the rumors of where theres a war/fight and someone sneaks to someone else's house and cuts the power to his house so theyll win the fight were true lol

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Kaius Fero
#977 - 2014-03-28 23:08:13 UTC
I the case that none know how a glory hole works out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_bsMGsBjWc


Oh dear....

Anselmo & The Illegals
Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
#978 - 2014-03-28 23:08:28 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Louis Robichaud wrote:

It's starting to sound like it doesn't it? And who would have known that griefer tears would be such a delicate nectar?


So you don't feel the dev post provides very little guidance, and does not address the issue at hand.
You changed your mind and thought now to be as good a time as any to join the army of pitchfork wielding trolls.

Gotcha Louis. And here I was thinking you had a mind of your own Roll

D.

Bear


Maybe if you spend a little more time trolling, it might become a bit more apparent..
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries
#979 - 2014-03-28 23:09:40 UTC
H aVo K wrote:
Ssieth wrote:

CCP aren't changing any rules just restating them and urging people to be cautious when sailing close to the edges of the EULA/ToS.


Can I summarize your posts thusly:

"If you're a player who chooses to skirt the harassment portions of the EULA, you risk getting banned, and that is completely your fault for choosing to play in such a manner"

That distill it all down?


Okay... I'll take the "Ssieth has liked your post" notification to mean "yes". Great... moving right along then:

It's **Definition Time** XD

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/harass

Subject to aggressive pressure or intimidation

So, by that definition, anyone in this game who subjects anyone else in this game to "aggressive pressure or intimidation" is skirting the harassment portions of the EULA.

Now name something you can do in game, in an adversarial context, that doesn't fit that definition.

Go on.

I'll wait.
Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#980 - 2014-03-28 23:11:14 UTC
H aVo K wrote:
H aVo K wrote:
Ssieth wrote:

CCP aren't changing any rules just restating them and urging people to be cautious when sailing close to the edges of the EULA/ToS.


Can I summarize your posts thusly:

"If you're a player who chooses to skirt the harassment portions of the EULA, you risk getting banned, and that is completely your fault for choosing to play in such a manner"

That distill it all down?


Okay... I'll take the "Ssieth has liked your post" notification to mean "yes". Great... moving right along then:

It's **Definition Time** XD

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/harass

Subject to aggressive pressure or intimidation

So, by that definition, anyone in this game who subjects anyone else in this game to "aggressive pressure or intimidation" is skirting the harassment portions of the EULA.

Now name something you can do in game, in an adversarial context, that doesn't fit that definition.

Go on.

I'll wait.


You keep on missing the part where a rule doesn't have to be broken for CCP to act. Suck it up.

Aaaaaaand relax.