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An Announcement Regarding Real Life Harassment

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Genseric Tollaris
Hard Cog Industry
#941 - 2014-03-28 22:43:17 UTC
Well I suppose the only way to find where the line is is to go back to high sec and take a big crap in the sandbox and try to get banned.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#942 - 2014-03-28 22:43:32 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
You better damn well hope you never upset the wrong person, since we know how fairly the grey rules have been enforced in the past.
Good advice. Might I suggest you stop posting.
You may indeed suggest it. I support freedom of speech you see.
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
I'm more worried that through convincing petitions, people are going to get banned for things that other people get away with.
You are truly a great humanitarian.
Thanks muchly.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Bael Malefic
Doomheim
#943 - 2014-03-28 22:44:28 UTC
Danalee wrote:


Yes, harassment = BAN THE WITCH.
Harassment needs a victim -> No victims in this case.
Harassment needs to be reported -> No report made.
Harssment in game (which the EULA applies to) needs to be verified in the logs -> logs show nothing.



Guy with issues (greed, whatever) conned into the whole scam culminating in bonus room. Guy with issues (rage, whatever) stays in bonus room and says terrible things as he is deliberately humiliated for the entertainment of the scam's organizer and friends long after all his in-game assets are theirs. I note that the moment they had all his stuff, this no longer had anything to do with EVE.

Scam organizer and friends publish recording outside of game for public LOLz. Most normal, reasonable people find this repugnant. Forum shitstorm ensues.

CCP and CSM, being for the most part normal, reasonable people, agree and take action.

Sorry...the fact that the scammer and friends conned said guy with issues to come back to their TS channel and say nice things (wonder what they offered him that was not on the TS chat they published) does not undue anything that went before. It does not excuse or erase anything.

Sounds pretty clear-cut to me. This game is a service provided by CCP. They run it pretty fast-and-loose which is part of the appeal but still Their property. "No shoes, no shirt, no service" and so on. If I don't like the way they run it I am free to stop using their service. If they don't like the way I use it they are free to kick me out.

Arguments about rules, laws, TOS, EULA...irrelevant. Arguments that nothing happened because no formal complaint was made...likewise, irrelevant (especially with the original recording out there for all to hear). This is private property.

Strikes me that if anybody is not OK with this outcome, or finds the notion of the service provider acting to protect their reputation and brand somehow unjust, maybe they ought to leave the game. I'm sure EVE will survive without you.
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
#944 - 2014-03-28 22:44:38 UTC
Danalee wrote:

I'll say something silly: No rules have been broken and I have the EULA, the TOS and international law to back it up.

D.
Bear

Yes, that's silly. Because it's obviously wrong. And I have a CCP decision to back it up. P
Prince Kobol
#945 - 2014-03-28 22:44:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:


Sokhars was the exception, not the rule. Most victims felt disgruntled but accepted they were scammed and given the run around. And as far as I can tell those bonus rooms would not be bannable, it's only because Erotica has been interpreted to have gone too far by continuing to ask for songs after Sokhar flipped out. I disagree that it was too far because it was Sokhar who acted unreasonably in response to being scammed. Further I do not approve of how personal you are getting over a minor disagreement over something in an online game, either you want a debate or you want insult throwing, decide.


So are you saying that so long as it only one person who has been humiliated or harassed then its okay?


If you read the rest of my post you'll see that while I admit Sokhars reaction was extreme it was not because I believe Erotica went too far.


Fair enough, if you believe Sokhars reaction was extreme, but was not caused by any actions by Erotica, then what do you believe caused such an extreme reaction from Sokhar?
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#946 - 2014-03-28 22:45:57 UTC
Genseric Tollaris wrote:
Can someone give me a quick TL;DR of the thread please?


Someone got scammed, tears were made, then collected, someone got banned for it.

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Jebediah Phoenix
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#947 - 2014-03-28 22:48:08 UTC
Vance Armistice wrote:


Please explain in detail the thought process behind asking another player to dribble mayo on their mouth and take a picture. Then explain why E1 got so upset when people found personal details about his purchasing habits from info he left in public. Then tell us about his peanutbutter fetish. Explain why he was too extreme to remain in GS and was kicked. Why does he get his kicks from humiliating others. Then tell us all why we should give a rat's ass about another random weirdo that got caught out there fapping to other's misery.

You can't ,can you? You have to stick to the talking points you were issued.


I didn't reply to this the last 3 or 4 times you posted it because I'm talking about Sokhar's bonus room as this seems to be the direct reason for Erotica's ban. I'm unfamiliar with the things you have posted, and considering how much has been made of the mayo incident I find it implausible that it actually happened considering this is the internet and the pictures have never popped up.
Jebediah Phoenix
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#948 - 2014-03-28 22:49:47 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:


Sokhars was the exception, not the rule. Most victims felt disgruntled but accepted they were scammed and given the run around. And as far as I can tell those bonus rooms would not be bannable, it's only because Erotica has been interpreted to have gone too far by continuing to ask for songs after Sokhar flipped out. I disagree that it was too far because it was Sokhar who acted unreasonably in response to being scammed. Further I do not approve of how personal you are getting over a minor disagreement over something in an online game, either you want a debate or you want insult throwing, decide.


So are you saying that so long as it only one person who has been humiliated or harassed then its okay?


If you read the rest of my post you'll see that while I admit Sokhars reaction was extreme it was not because I believe Erotica went too far.


Fair enough, if you believe Sokhars reaction was extreme, but was not caused by any actions by Erotica, then what do you believe caused such an extreme reaction from Sokhar?


Thin skin and lack of understanding of the game he's playing.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#949 - 2014-03-28 22:51:04 UTC
One Eyed Runner wrote:
with all the bitching going on, I can only assume that most of you have not been in the military. In the military rules change hourly depending on you commanding office and how he feels, get use to it and you will rarely be disappointed in life


Yeah, cause real life in the military is EXACTLY how a game should be run.

ugh, people who cant differentiate between game and life bug the **** out of me. Like the guy that got scammed.

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Ahost Gceo
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#950 - 2014-03-28 22:51:14 UTC
Vance Armistice wrote:
Ahost Gceo wrote:
Quote:

I tried snipping. I failed, I am sorry.


Quote:
Care Bear?!? Do you have any idea who you are messing with? This is the King of J-Space, you should be happy he even let you comment in his thread.


I generally don't like pulling the "this is who I am" epeen card but it would behoove someone in an argument to either learn something about his opponent so he can make accurate remarks or just skip the ad hominem insinuations altogether.

That being said, you should see Proc Diadochu whip it on C4 nerds in their threads. He is the king of J-Space shitposting. B)


I was being sincere. J-space is end game and your corp has a lot of history. props

Well, if you have a humble pie floating around I'll take a piece.

CCP ignore me please, I make too much sense.
Salvos Rhoska
#951 - 2014-03-28 22:51:15 UTC
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
I'm talking about Sokhar's bonus room as this seems to be the direct reason for Erotica1's ban.

You are speculating. Nobody here knows, or has said, what CCPs specific reason for its actions are.

All we know, is that Erotica1 is atleast temp banned, possibly perma, and that the statement at the top of this thread was posted by CCP.

You are drawing conclusions that you do not have the information to back up.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#952 - 2014-03-28 22:52:10 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Klyith wrote:
I have one, single, very important question for CCP:
Did Sohkar, the victim of the harassment, file a petition about being harassed, either recently or back x months ago when it happened?


I know you never answer questions about petitions, but it's kinda important to know if the standard for policing out of game harassment is now "some busybody unrelated to either party can bring a thing to CCP's attention"?

Could I get a spy into PL, hang out on their comms until the next time Grath explodes in rage and berates some other dude, then send that recording to the harassment department? Grath has a well-know prior history of this thing! Can I go and find the Plungerhead pics and send those in to the good manners police? Can I get on comms with DHD and record him saying the N-word a lot and petition? Could someone else record MY trash talking and use it against me?


This isn't a case of wanting to know where the line is so I can edge up to it. I want to know if harassment is defined by the involved people or what RIPARD TEG and a FORUM THREADNAUGHT want to make an issue out of.


Did the Wiz report The Mittani?

If he didn't then I guess using your logic CCP should of not banned The Mittani.


Wait, they banned him after the fact? Oh you mean that three month slap on the wrist.

Not the permaban this guy is getting.

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Liese Shardani
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#953 - 2014-03-28 22:52:33 UTC
Asia Leigh wrote:
Okay lets buy your argument for just a second here...

Its really irrelevant as to when Ripard found out, its to when CCP found out. And it should have been found out when threads started getting locked in C&P. If they didnt know then, then someone needs to get in ISD's ass for dropping the ball. Because isn't it their job to moderate the forums and when something grossly breaks the rules to forward it to a game master for investigation? If CCP didn't know 8 months ago then take a wild guess at who wasn't doing their job....
The Sohkar incident was about a month ago, so I guess it's possible they've taken a while to figure out what to do, but yeah, even so, that does seem pretty slow. And if those other incidents I've heard on audio happened before that and were discussed here, they've had even longer to address it.

I think sometimes it takes having people outside the system to connect the dots. There've been big companies who were aware of weird stuff going on but never quite put it together as something to be addressed until someone who doesn't work there said, "Umm, you realize how crappy this is, right?"

I think the delay isn't GREAT, and I'm hoping they're becoming more aware and proactive about stuff, but I don't see a personal vendetta or conspiracy angle in the delay, either.
Prince Kobol
#954 - 2014-03-28 22:53:04 UTC
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:


Sokhars was the exception, not the rule. Most victims felt disgruntled but accepted they were scammed and given the run around. And as far as I can tell those bonus rooms would not be bannable, it's only because Erotica has been interpreted to have gone too far by continuing to ask for songs after Sokhar flipped out. I disagree that it was too far because it was Sokhar who acted unreasonably in response to being scammed. Further I do not approve of how personal you are getting over a minor disagreement over something in an online game, either you want a debate or you want insult throwing, decide.


So are you saying that so long as it only one person who has been humiliated or harassed then its okay?


If you read the rest of my post you'll see that while I admit Sokhars reaction was extreme it was not because I believe Erotica went too far.


Fair enough, if you believe Sokhars reaction was extreme, but was not caused by any actions by Erotica, then what do you believe caused such an extreme reaction from Sokhar?


Thin skin and lack of understanding of the game he's playing.


The game he was playing, I thought Eve was about shooting space pixels, I didn't realise it also involved being humiliated and then having a recording of it all placed on the internet.

Must of missed that part on the advertising, need to ask CCP to make a promo vid.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#955 - 2014-03-28 22:53:48 UTC
Coffee Rocks wrote:
Klyith wrote:
stuff


Coffee Rocks wrote:
To all the folks here worried about this because they can't understand what is "gameplay" and what is "sadistic", let me sum it up for you:

CCP:

Ahem.

"Just have faith in the process."

Thank you.




I like this idea better:


"To all the folks here worried about this because they can't understand what is "gameplay" and what is "sadistic", let me sum it up for you:

CCP: HARDEN THE **** UP

Thank you"

I like the old CCP better

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Klyith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#956 - 2014-03-28 22:53:58 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Klyith wrote:
I have one, single, very important question for CCP:
Did Sohkar, the victim of the harassment, file a petition about being harassed, either recently or back x months ago when it happened?


I know you never answer questions about petitions, but it's kinda important to know if the standard for policing out of game harassment is now "some busybody unrelated to either party can bring a thing to CCP's attention"?

Could I get a spy into PL, hang out on their comms until the next time Grath explodes in rage and berates some other dude, then send that recording to the harassment department? Grath has a well-know prior history of this thing! Can I go and find the Plungerhead pics and send those in to the good manners police? Can I get on comms with DHD and record him saying the N-word a lot and petition? Could someone else record MY trash talking and use it against me?


This isn't a case of wanting to know where the line is so I can edge up to it. I want to know if harassment is defined by the involved people or what RIPARD TEG and a FORUM THREADNAUGHT want to make an issue out of.


Did the Wiz report The Mittani?

If he didn't then I guess using your logic CCP should of not banned The Mittani.

Mittani's action was in a CCP venue where CCP had direct evidence of the problem.

Erotica1's harassment was on a separate service that has to be brought to CCP's attention for them to know about it. I only want to know if the standard is now that 3rd-party reporting of out-of-game violations is sufficient for action.




(Also he probably had petitioned Mittani before that and been rejected. The whole story behind The Wiz was that he got scammed and then sent a lot of mails to people in GF about killing himself because of it. Mittens and other people had reposted those mails for mockery, which likely led to distributed harassment from lots of people in GSF. Should he have been banned months before the drunken fanfest outrage?)
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#957 - 2014-03-28 22:54:49 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
A lot of snide comments and slanderous remarks being directed at Erotica 1, why if id say there are quite a few folks harassing this individual who has already received punishment for his actions.


Lotta that coming from the CSM guys too

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#958 - 2014-03-28 22:55:34 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:

Wait, they banned him after the fact? Oh you mean that three month slap on the wrist.

Not the permaban this guy is getting.


Link, please.

Mr Epeen Cool
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#959 - 2014-03-28 22:56:31 UTC
Louis Robichaud wrote:


1: They want to dance on that rule, tear harvest as much as possible without getting banned.

2: They don't have any empathy, and can't tell when they are being cruel to others.

3: They are dumb as door-nobs.



1: Cause this isnt a game.

2: Cause game = real life right?

3: HOW THE **** do you get off calling someone else dumb and you misspell DOORKNOB -.-

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Jebediah Phoenix
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#960 - 2014-03-28 22:56:50 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:


The game he was playing, I thought Eve was about shooting space pixels, I didn't realise it also involved being humiliated and then having a recording of it all placed on the internet.

Must of missed that part on the advertising, need to ask CCP to make a promo vid.


We've already gone over this, he was scammed and then given the run around for a little in TS, it's no worse than a trash talk in local. Plenty of others went through the same thing and didn't react like a lunatic because they understood being scammed and wound up is a possibility.