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An Announcement Regarding Real Life Harassment

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Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#741 - 2014-03-28 21:30:51 UTC
Valda Abia wrote:
So if an FC gives a bad order over TS which causes someone to lose a ship and that causes them undue emotional distress, is that FC liable to be banned?

I'm asking for a friend.


Nono, that's one of the many unwritten exceptions of the unwritten rule.

Unless it happened in the past, than all's possible.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#742 - 2014-03-28 21:32:17 UTC
Tyrant Scorn wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


They already had ALL of his stuff. They literally had nothing left to gain from him IN GAME.

So yeah no, you're the bullshitter.


And you know it.


And CCP agree with me, so as previously advised, suck it up buttercup. I'm in 319- if you want to make something of it.


Can you please answer my question mate ?


No I'm tired and I've had enough. If what I've already posted hasn't made the reality clear, then anything I post after this won't do it either.

I've earned my free holiday to Iceland, and you can all **** off and act like sensible human beings.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#743 - 2014-03-28 21:33:05 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
So if you've clearly defined the lines, is it against the rules to ransom for a song, and if a "victim" of the ransom were to feel harassed, would that mean it's over the line? How many songs are "too many"?

If it's so clear, it will be pretty straightforward to answer right?


Do you think you're capable of detecting when you're pushing another human being over the line?
That depends entirely on the human being in question.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#744 - 2014-03-28 21:33:18 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Danalee wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

We now have a rule, don't push a 'victim" to the point of emotional distress... and that rule will be examined to see if it is applicable in each ticket they receive about an incident like this.


We now have a post from a CSM that says as much. NO RULE as of yet.
We are also banning people who broke said "rule" before it was written by said CSM.

Keep up, please.

Ahhh, no. We have a clarification of a long existing rule.

Just keeping things in perspective.


So this unwritten rule wasn't clear and needed clarification but is still ok to use to ban people for transgressions before the clarification than?

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#745 - 2014-03-28 21:33:35 UTC
Ahost Gceo wrote:


I'm sorry, what planet are you on? There is an entire subculture in this game including the Minerbumping collective and Erotica 1's Bonus Room that solely exists to cause emotional distress in players for their entertainment.

It's funny, to a point. Beyond that it is detrimental, and this is a clear case of what that means.



Actually, The New Order is trying to stop botting and turn miners into productive members of society.
Haven't you read the code? It spells it out pretty plainly.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#746 - 2014-03-28 21:34:04 UTC
Vance Armistice wrote:
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
I'd like to think that the definition of "harassment" involves at least a little non-consent beyond "he used jedi mind tricks on me." Since E1 has said he's been banned, that apparently isn't so. So it seems whether you harrased someone or not mostly (entirely) depends on how they felt about the experience.



I would like the definition of "bad touches'. Can you help?


Sure. Unwanted. Unwelcome. Destructive. The inappropriate touching of others spaceships, wallets, POS modules and anything else they own in game against their wishes. Touching them in their special places until they lose physical cohesion or their wallet magically sends isks to our wallets.

We are super bad at all of those things. But a man's gotta have goals.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#747 - 2014-03-28 21:34:08 UTC
Still, I don't want to be inflexible: the price of futher clarification from me is: all your stuff.

If you don't care enough to give me worthless spacepixels, then why should I?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Tyrant Scorn
#748 - 2014-03-28 21:34:26 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

No I'm tired and I've had enough. If what I've already posted hasn't made the reality clear, then anything I post after this won't do it either.

I've earned my free holiday to Iceland, and you can all **** off and act like sensible human beings.


I believe I have not misbehaved. I was merely asking a question because I am genuinely interested in knowing the answer.

The Tyrant King

YouTube | Twitter | Twitch
Salvos Rhoska
#749 - 2014-03-28 21:34:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Batelle wrote:
More like, continue abusing people on TS all you want, just be sure to not brag about it and also DENY EVERYTHING. This case was a bit unusual in that there was never any question of the veracity of the recording.


Good observation. Another fatal flaw in the Bonus Rooms by its wizard designers.

Ironically they actually thought recording would cover their own asses as long as they superficially pokerfaced through the proceedings while laughing off-mic, and that consent to recording (which was implied, not explicitly asked) would somehow magically and automatically mean consent to whatever happens there.

Protip to readers: Recording your own questionable activities, is not a good idea.

Having since read the full disclosure of what all was actually entailed in the Bonus Room itself, I am at a loss to understand or explain how people who apparently where brilliant enough to be able to convince people to transfer all their assets over before they even entered the Bonus Room, could have designed such a goofy and pants-on-head followup to that impressive achievement.

What a waste.

Anyways, returning to topic. If you think you might be banned for it. Don't do it.
The wording of the statement clearly indicates what it applies to, and what parts of the EULA/TOS it reinforces as a statement of intent that those will be enforced, if necessary, and if the conditions in the statement are met.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#750 - 2014-03-28 21:35:38 UTC
Xuixien wrote:

If you're playing rugby and someone tackles you and you skin your knee, who should you really be mad at: The person who tackles you or the guy who rubs salt on the wound?


It's a game, you shouldn't get mad at either.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#751 - 2014-03-28 21:36:01 UTC
I never respond to people that start their posts with 'so' and neither should you Malcanis. It's a simple method for weeding out the brainless.

Mr Epeen Cool
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#752 - 2014-03-28 21:36:04 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Ahost Gceo wrote:


I'm sorry, what planet are you on? There is an entire subculture in this game including the Minerbumping collective and Erotica 1's Bonus Room that solely exists to cause emotional distress in players for their entertainment.

It's funny, to a point. Beyond that it is detrimental, and this is a clear case of what that means.



Actually, The New Order is trying to stop botting and turn miners into productive members of society.
Haven't you read the code? It spells it out pretty plainly.



Couldn't read any of it after I had wiped my arse with it and flushed it down the pan .... shame : P


Tal

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#753 - 2014-03-28 21:36:33 UTC
Tyrant Scorn wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

No I'm tired and I've had enough. If what I've already posted hasn't made the reality clear, then anything I post after this won't do it either.

I've earned my free holiday to Iceland, and you can all **** off and act like sensible human beings.


I believe I have not misbehaved. I was merely asking a question because I am genuinely interested in knowing the answer.


You should have asked sooner then. Too bad.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jebediah Phoenix
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#754 - 2014-03-28 21:37:02 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Danalee wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:


The intention of the bonus room isn't reactions like Sokhar's


Yes it was.


Bull. ****. And you know it.

D.

Bear



They already had ALL of his stuff. They literally had nothing left to gain from him IN GAME.

So yeah no, you're the bullshitter.


And you know it.


And CCP agree with me, so as previously advised, suck it up buttercup. I'm in 319- if you want to make something of it.


There's nothing to gain from many activities, just as a little trash talk in local has no gain but to wind other people up. And that's usually what the bonus room delivered, someone admitting they felt dumb but accepted it was their fault because of the nature of EVE. Sokhars reaction is the equivalent of that old video of a German kid smashing up his keyboard because he's losing at whatever FPS he's playing. No one can expect that nor be blamed for it when all that's lost is a few pixels and a bit of face.
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#755 - 2014-03-28 21:37:13 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Still, I don't want to be inflexible: the price of futher clarification from me is: all your stuff.

If you don't care enough to give me worthless spacepixels, then why should I?


Guys, it is obvious that we are taxing Malcanis to his breaking point, and I think we should stop, now.
:p

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Alyth Nerun
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#756 - 2014-03-28 21:37:15 UTC
Vance Armistice wrote:
Alyth Nerun wrote:
It looks to me like manipulating CCP into banning another player via external blog and a mad mob on the forums consisting of <0.1% of the player base is now officially part of EVE's meta game.


citation needed. This isn't the bonus room, Sonny. You can't just drop a stat and expect us to believe it. Where is your source? Produce it or go bump a miner.


~500 Unique authors in the thread
http://eve-search.com/stats/thread/332182-1

EVE has ~500k Subs when they last published numbers
http://www.edge-online.com/news/eve-online-passes-500000-subscribers/

=> math => 0.1%

I ignored the fact that multiple chars in the thread as well as in the total subscription number may be the same person because we can assume that ratio to be the same.
Tyrant Scorn
#757 - 2014-03-28 21:38:16 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Tyrant Scorn wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

No I'm tired and I've had enough. If what I've already posted hasn't made the reality clear, then anything I post after this won't do it either.

I've earned my free holiday to Iceland, and you can all **** off and act like sensible human beings.


I believe I have not misbehaved. I was merely asking a question because I am genuinely interested in knowing the answer.


You should have asked sooner then. Too bad.


Ok, what ever dude...

The Tyrant King

YouTube | Twitter | Twitch
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
#758 - 2014-03-28 21:38:30 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Hope this helps

Sorry that EVE criminal law isn't any more clear cut that real life.
Except in real life, they have laws, you know, rules. They don't just say "don't be mean".

Rules which need to be examined in each individual case to see if they apply.

We now have a rule, don't push a 'victim" to the point of emotional distress... and that rule will be examined to see if it is applicable in each ticket they receive about an incident like this.

Even in the strictest laws, there are layers of interpretation to be considered and debated... ultimately to be decided upon by a jury or a judge.

Writing a thousand variations of a given rule (law) to cover every possible situation is impossible... there would always be loopholes and is an impractical concept to begin with. That's why laws and a system to interpret how applicable they are was developed long ago.

I don't have an issue with CCP using their discretion in this, after all it is their game and their rules... and frankly I can even escalate the issue higher if I feel I've been treated unfairly.

This is the wisest, and most practical way of addressing the problem as a whole instead of as a single specific incident.

Thanks, you saved me the trouble to write the same.

In most cases it's enough to use common sense.
It's somewhat like the basic market rule in EvE: "If it's too good to be true, it's probably neither good nor true." Most people easily understand what it means and tread carefully or ask for advice when they are in doubt. And then there are those who don't... more often than not they will lose ISK and assets.
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#759 - 2014-03-28 21:38:42 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Danalee wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
The intention of the bonus room isn't reactions like Sokhar's
Yes it was.

Bull. ****. And you know it.


They already had ALL of his stuff. They literally had nothing left to gain from him IN GAME.
So yeah no, you're the bullshitter.
And you know it.


He had everything and more to gain, they were holding a bonus room.
No EULA/TOS/LAWS have been broken and your scapegoat victim went on record saying exactly that.
Try again.

Malcanis wrote:

And CCP agree with me, so as previously advised, suck it up buttercup. I'm in 319- if you want to make something of it.

You sound mad, are you mad, bro?

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Ssieth
Celestial Inc
Dracarys.
#760 - 2014-03-28 21:38:47 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Danalee wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

We now have a rule, don't push a 'victim" to the point of emotional distress... and that rule will be examined to see if it is applicable in each ticket they receive about an incident like this.


We now have a post from a CSM that says as much. NO RULE as of yet.
We are also banning people who broke said "rule" before it was written by said CSM.

Keep up, please.

Ahhh, no. We have a clarification of a long existing rule.

Just keeping things in perspective.


So this unwritten rule wasn't clear and needed clarification but is still ok to use to ban people for transgressions before the clarification than?

D.

Bear


"Unwritten rule is written".. I see a new meme on the horizon....

Seriously - as was pointed out many times here and in the previous thread, the rules are there and have only been restated. Not rewritten, unwritten, changed, modified, strengthened, weakened or anything else you might like to imagine.

I get it that you're not going to believe this (although I'm mystified as to why) but it is the way it is whether you believe it or not (reality is nice like that when it's not inside your head).

W-Spacer.  Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff.