These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Market Discussions

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Any professional traders out there??
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Dealth Striker
Perkone
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-03-16 10:05:51 UTC
2 things I have learned in regards to RL and Eve Trading:

1. In RL trading, not too many people will take a huge loss just to tick someone off - in Eve well...

2. Like in RL trading, losing money (isk) in Eve can bring tears
Striker Out!!
Chris Lehman
Doomheim
#22 - 2014-03-17 14:01:36 UTC
Loki Ragnorok wrote:
Hey there New Eden,
The plan:
Phase 1: moderately sized prop fund to test concept and build analytics
Phase 2: public hedge fund and a few index funds (long and short)

I'm no professional trader, but I do spend most of my time in EVE trading.

I like the idea of an investment bank or hedge fund. The billion dollar question is about trust. How do you get investors to trust you enough to speculate with their ISK? I occasionally invest with other players, but it's always small amounts. In order to remain competitive you will need to reel in the big fish. How do you intend to do that?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#23 - 2014-03-17 19:10:57 UTC
Chris Lehman wrote:

I like the idea of an investment bank or hedge fund. The billion dollar question is about trust. How do you get investors to trust you enough to speculate with their ISK? I occasionally invest with other players, but it's always small amounts. In order to remain competitive you will need to reel in the big fish. How do you intend to do that?


Old dilemma: those of us who can easily raise 100B+ for a "serious" fund don't need to.

Those who would need to, aren't trusted to do it.

It'd be nice to find a way to bridge the needs and the trust.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Kate 'on
DevonCorp
#24 - 2014-03-17 23:42:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Kate 'on
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Chris Lehman wrote:

I like the idea of an investment bank or hedge fund. The billion dollar question is about trust. How do you get investors to trust you enough to speculate with their ISK? I occasionally invest with other players, but it's always small amounts. In order to remain competitive you will need to reel in the big fish. How do you intend to do that?


Old dilemma: those of us who can easily raise 100B+ for a "serious" fund don't need to.

Those who would need to, aren't trusted to do it.

It'd be nice to find a way to bridge the needs and the trust.


It's not even that, it's a solution in search of a problem. There is currently no need for a bank. There is nothing that a player can do with my ISK that I couldn't do myself, and pocket his cut.

this thread really needs to die, it's suffering

Make players have to haul their wallets arounjd physically, and maybe you have a market for ISK transfers, but it's already a bank out there called CCP
Chris Lehman
Doomheim
#25 - 2014-03-18 09:10:28 UTC
Kate 'on wrote:
It's not even that, it's a solution in search of a problem. There is currently no need for a bank. There is nothing that a player can do with my ISK that I couldn't do myself, and pocket his cut.

Yes, you could do most things that a fund does yourself. You could also mine our own ore and build anything from scratch instead of buying it from other players.
Why do people still invest in managed funds? Convenience.

Problem
Investor: "I want to make decent returns, but I can't be bothered with watching the markets 24/7"
Fund manager: "I have a great opportunity to make a decent return, but I lack the capital"

Solution
If you can bridge trust issues, this could work.
Kate 'on
DevonCorp
#26 - 2014-03-18 22:49:42 UTC
Chris Lehman wrote:
Kate 'on wrote:
It's not even that, it's a solution in search of a problem. There is currently no need for a bank. There is nothing that a player can do with my ISK that I couldn't do myself, and pocket his cut.

Yes, you could do most things that a fund does yourself. You could also mine our own ore and build anything from scratch instead of buying it from other players.
Why do people still invest in managed funds? Convenience.

Problem
Investor: "I want to make decent returns, but I can't be bothered with watching the markets 24/7"
Fund manager: "I have a great opportunity to make a decent return, but I lack the capital"

Solution
If you can bridge trust issues, this could work.


Even IRL trading isn't built on trust, it's built on teh lack of trust. Find me spacelawyers, and space debt collectors then.

And if you don't have the time for trading, you don't have the time for EVE. Its literally the smallest amount of time online. Mining at least you sell the minerals to someone else, and no one can screw the other one over
Julius Rigel
#27 - 2014-03-19 08:57:59 UTC
Kate 'on wrote:
Even IRL trading isn't built on trust
Simply put, real life investing is built on the assumption that you can't log off and disappear. You can trust the laws of physics to make sure of that, for the time being.

Do YOU like to undock?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#28 - 2014-03-19 16:31:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Julius Rigel wrote:
Kate 'on wrote:
Even IRL trading isn't built on trust
Simply put, real life investing is built on the assumption that you can't log off and disappear. You can trust the laws of physics to make sure of that, for the time being.


I know a massive 777 airplane some days ago logged off in the middle of a flight and disappeared Shocked

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Percival Rose
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-03-28 12:16:16 UTC
Julius Rigel wrote:
Kate 'on wrote:
Even IRL trading isn't built on trust
Simply put, real life investing is built on the assumption that you can't log off and disappear. You can trust the laws of physics to make sure of that, for the time being.

In the end, something is worth that which both the buyer and seller agree upon.

Someone once told me he had bought a house at € 250.000. He wasn't planning to sell until a guy knocked on his door and offered him almost twice the amount he paid for it. It turns out the buyer was quite wealthy and had some happy childhood memories about the house he grew up in.
While I cannot confirm that this is a true story, I hope it illustrates what I'm trying to say; value is subjective.

Do you know who's going to inherit New Eden? Arms dealers. Because everyone else is too busy killing each other.
InterStellar Architect
InterStellar Architects Corporation
#30 - 2014-03-28 21:18:35 UTC  |  Edited by: InterStellar Architect
The only way to make Banks, Funds, and Bonds work in Eve Online, is to make scamming associated with Banks, Funds, and Bonds a ban-able offense.

Your IP gets traced, and all your accounts get banned if the GM (or a judgement committee) finds you guilty. The ISK that is scammed needs to be confiscated. There should be some kind of repercussion.

In real life, Bernie Madoff gets sentenced to 150 years of jail time. In Eve, you log off and create another character.
InterStellar Architect
InterStellar Architects Corporation
#31 - 2014-03-28 21:34:57 UTC  |  Edited by: InterStellar Architect
Dealth Striker wrote:
2 things I have learned in regards to RL and Eve Trading:

2. Like in RL trading, losing money (isk) in Eve can bring tears


Not even close, if you lose ISK in Eve you can still sleep at night. I can still sleep if my account gets hacked and I lose all my ISK. Maybe I won't even care.

In real life there is a huge fear factor that affects even the most experienced traders. It is inevitable, even though many people who have never traded before think they won't be effected by fear. And nothing feels worse than taking a heavy loss on a trade/investment - occasionally you might be too nervous or feel too sh1tty to eat, or can't go to sleep. The only thing I can think of that feels worse is maybe finding out you have cancer, or the death of a loved one.
Previous page12