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An Announcement Regarding Real Life Harassment

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Khan D'Amarr
Doomheim
#521 - 2014-03-28 19:46:43 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


"I guess you have to draw the line at the point where the victim starts to lose emotional control, and that's a different place for everyone and every situation. And there has to be a willingness to recognize that line and honor it with humane behavior. I don't get a sense from Erotica's recording that there was any intent in ever doing that. Not one bit."



So Mittani should have been banned in this environment is what youre saying.

Also; any time someone ganks a miner and the miner rages, they ganker will be banned? That meets that emotional requirement that this seems to need. That will change this game HUGELY if true


He was banned in this environment. 3 months or so iirc
Moja Hinken
State War Academy
Caldari State
#522 - 2014-03-28 19:47:02 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Moja Hinken wrote:
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
Minerbumping.com is saying E1 has been permabanned.


If this is true than it makes me happy CCP would punish someone for this kind of psychological abuse. It wasn't about scamming, it was about the unneeded abuse that took place after. It is obvious where the line has been drawn.


So the next time someone like Mittens tries to get someone to commit suicide (drunk or otherwise) a ban will be forthcoming?

Why was THIS such a HUGE problem that deserves an instant permaban and that wasnt?

Erotica1 should just say he was drunk. Thats how the last guy got away with it.

Hey tell him to say he was drunk.



"Tries to get someone to commit suicide" Read what you just wrote. There shouldn't be any doubt in your mind that a ban should be forthcoming we are talking about human beings here. Are you mindless?

I will be keeping up with this and renewing my subscription if erotica 1 was actually banned. Have a nice day everyone =).
Morihei Akachi
Doomheim
#523 - 2014-03-28 19:47:43 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil.
Then talking to them on TS was evil?

Like I said, I guess I just dont get it
Then get this: once you've got all your target's money and killed all his ships, leave him alone.
So Malcanis, why in your professional opinion should someone running a scam be entirely responsible for stopping? Why in all of this, while the "victim" is fully capable of ending it at any moment does absolutely no responsibility fall to him?

This used to be clearer to you, Lucas. You've changed.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3564714#post3564714

"Enduring", "restrained" and "ample" as designations for starship components are foreign to the genre of high-tech science fiction and don’t belong in Eve Online. (And as for “scoped” …)
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#524 - 2014-03-28 19:48:30 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
I dont get why scamming someone stupid enough to give you all their stuff is so bad -.-

You have to be stupid enough to give them all your stuff. Thats rule number one breaking right there. Move on lol


CCP have no problem whatsover with scamming. They were extremely clear on this when we discussed the matter with them.

Suicide ganking, piracy, awoxing, scamming. spying, propaganda, lying, 0.01ing and so on are all perfectly fine. I personally went to considerable trouble to make sure that my deep concerns on those activities were addressed, and CCP's answers were 100% on the money as far as I'm concerned.

This. Is. Not. About. The. Scam.

It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil.

Malcanis, in many cases I'm right there with you. I've seen people take things to incredibly cruel levels before they are done.

But I have to be honest, asking someone to read text and sing the gummy bear song doesn't fall into that category in my book... and it apparently doesn't fall into that category in Sohkars book either.

Still, I can appreciate the position that CCP and the CSM was in... and respect the decisions made. It's just unfortunate that it makes it look like caving in to the mob mentality (which I personally don't believe it was).


Mynxee said it best, and tbh, this was the argument that persuaded me. Like yourself, I was very concerned about where the line should be drawn so as to prevent attempts to use the "ugh" as a tool for metagaming:

"I guess you have to draw the line at the point where the victim starts to lose emotional control, and that's a different place for everyone and every situation. And there has to be a willingness to recognize that line and honor it with humane behavior. I don't get a sense from Erotica's recording that there was any intent in ever doing that. Not one bit."

to expand on what mynxee said there is that the person with the position of power in the situation is the one with the responsibility to ensure that it doesn't cross the line. Erotica1 signally failed to do this. She very precisely articulated the philosophical issue with what he did (as opposed to a mere emotional reaction), and expressed clearly what he did wrong. Like yourself, I wanted a good definition of "the line" before being comfortable with CCP proceeding. There it is.

Fair enough. Well spoken.

I"m absolutely sure some knuckleheads will try to cite this case after "losing emotional control" to get compensation for a gank or war dec (which will be unsuccessful of course).

I'm a bit concerned about people throwing a fit just to force a person to back away from a scam or prank... but hopefully that flexibility built into CCP's official stance will keep people from abusing it as a "you can't touch me" card.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#525 - 2014-03-28 19:48:37 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


"I guess you have to draw the line at the point where the victim starts to lose emotional control, and that's a different place for everyone and every situation. And there has to be a willingness to recognize that line and honor it with humane behavior. I don't get a sense from Erotica's recording that there was any intent in ever doing that. Not one bit."



So Mittani should have been banned in this environment is what youre saying.

Also; any time someone ganks a miner and the miner rages, they ganker will be banned? That meets that emotional requirement that this seems to need. That will change this game HUGELY if true


You may recall that mittens did eat a temp ban. He also apologised unreservedly, and there were extenuating circumstances, not the least of which was that The Wis was wholly unaware of what he did until after the fact.

But if you're truly unable to see the real difference, then I can't help you. All I can advise you to do is to play the game and limit your communication to people who are previously assured of your goodwill.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Khan D'Amarr
Doomheim
#526 - 2014-03-28 19:48:41 UTC
Morihei Akachi wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil.
Then talking to them on TS was evil?

Like I said, I guess I just dont get it
Then get this: once you've got all your target's money and killed all his ships, leave him alone.
So Malcanis, why in your professional opinion should someone running a scam be entirely responsible for stopping? Why in all of this, while the "victim" is fully capable of ending it at any moment does absolutely no responsibility fall to him?

This used to be clearer to you, Lucas. You've changed.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3564714#post3564714


Dunked! Shocked
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#527 - 2014-03-28 19:48:42 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
So Malcanis, why in your professional opinion should someone running a scam be entirely responsible for stopping? Why in all of this, while the "victim" is fully capable of ending it at any moment does absolutely no responsibility fall to him?
Also; is this YOUR opinion or is this opinion shared by CCP and updated into the ToS/EULA?
The CSM has a unanimous position on this. CCP have fully satisfied us that they are acting according to the existing TOS & EULA and that erotica1 was fairly treated according to the existing rules.
That doesn't really answer my original question. Rephrased, why should absolutely ZERO responsibility fall on the "victim" to end a situation which they placed themselves into willingly?

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#528 - 2014-03-28 19:48:55 UTC
Khan D'Amarr wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


"I guess you have to draw the line at the point where the victim starts to lose emotional control, and that's a different place for everyone and every situation. And there has to be a willingness to recognize that line and honor it with humane behavior. I don't get a sense from Erotica's recording that there was any intent in ever doing that. Not one bit."



So Mittani should have been banned in this environment is what youre saying.

Also; any time someone ganks a miner and the miner rages, they ganker will be banned? That meets that emotional requirement that this seems to need. That will change this game HUGELY if true


He was banned in this environment. 3 months or so iirc


So Erotic is just 3 months banned, not permabanned then?

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#529 - 2014-03-28 19:49:53 UTC
Moja Hinken wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Moja Hinken wrote:
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
Minerbumping.com is saying E1 has been permabanned.


If this is true than it makes me happy CCP would punish someone for this kind of psychological abuse. It wasn't about scamming, it was about the unneeded abuse that took place after. It is obvious where the line has been drawn.


So the next time someone like Mittens tries to get someone to commit suicide (drunk or otherwise) a ban will be forthcoming?

Why was THIS such a HUGE problem that deserves an instant permaban and that wasnt?

Erotica1 should just say he was drunk. Thats how the last guy got away with it.

Hey tell him to say he was drunk.



"Tries to get someone to commit suicide" Read what you just wrote. There shouldn't be any doubt in your mind that a ban should be forthcoming we are talking about human beings here. Are you mindless?


Funny given that the guy IM not talking about is still here and unbanned.

"Read what you just wrote. There shouldn't be any doubt in your mind that a ban should be forthcoming we are talking about human beings here. Are you mindless?"

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Asia Leigh
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#530 - 2014-03-28 19:50:17 UTC
Khan D'Amarr wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


"I guess you have to draw the line at the point where the victim starts to lose emotional control, and that's a different place for everyone and every situation. And there has to be a willingness to recognize that line and honor it with humane behavior. I don't get a sense from Erotica's recording that there was any intent in ever doing that. Not one bit."



So Mittani should have been banned in this environment is what youre saying.

Also; any time someone ganks a miner and the miner rages, they ganker will be banned? That meets that emotional requirement that this seems to need. That will change this game HUGELY if true


He was banned in this environment. 3 months or so iirc


So Telling someone to go off themselves is worth 3 months, While making a snide remark about someones speech impairment is worth a perma? Please tell me more about how thats even remotely fair...
Apply the damn rules equally >.>
Salvos Rhoska
#531 - 2014-03-28 19:50:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Morihei Akachi wrote:
This used to be clearer to you, Lucas. You've changed.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3564714#post3564714

Damn... Thats some impressive bookmark filing system you have there! o7

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#532 - 2014-03-28 19:50:49 UTC
Morihei Akachi wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil.
Then talking to them on TS was evil?

Like I said, I guess I just dont get it
Then get this: once you've got all your target's money and killed all his ships, leave him alone.
So Malcanis, why in your professional opinion should someone running a scam be entirely responsible for stopping? Why in all of this, while the "victim" is fully capable of ending it at any moment does absolutely no responsibility fall to him?

This used to be clearer to you, Lucas. You've changed.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3564714#post3564714


Depends whether it's him or whoever he's sharing the acct with that's at the keyboard.

Mr Epeen Cool
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#533 - 2014-03-28 19:51:50 UTC
Asia Leigh wrote:
Khan D'Amarr wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


"I guess you have to draw the line at the point where the victim starts to lose emotional control, and that's a different place for everyone and every situation. And there has to be a willingness to recognize that line and honor it with humane behavior. I don't get a sense from Erotica's recording that there was any intent in ever doing that. Not one bit."



So Mittani should have been banned in this environment is what youre saying.

Also; any time someone ganks a miner and the miner rages, they ganker will be banned? That meets that emotional requirement that this seems to need. That will change this game HUGELY if true


He was banned in this environment. 3 months or so iirc


So Telling someone to go off themselves is worth 3 months, While making a snide remark about someones speech impairment is worth a perma? Please tell me more about how thats even remotely fair...


Kinda the point was looking at thank you

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Khan D'Amarr
Doomheim
#534 - 2014-03-28 19:51:56 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Khan D'Amarr wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


"I guess you have to draw the line at the point where the victim starts to lose emotional control, and that's a different place for everyone and every situation. And there has to be a willingness to recognize that line and honor it with humane behavior. I don't get a sense from Erotica's recording that there was any intent in ever doing that. Not one bit."



So Mittani should have been banned in this environment is what youre saying.

Also; any time someone ganks a miner and the miner rages, they ganker will be banned? That meets that emotional requirement that this seems to need. That will change this game HUGELY if true


He was banned in this environment. 3 months or so iirc


So Erotic is just 3 months banned, not permabanned then?


Different situation entirely so I have no idea.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#535 - 2014-03-28 19:53:04 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:


Depends whether it's him or whoever he's sharing the acct with that's at the keyboard.

Mr Epeen Cool



Ill use a line from the game I was playing while on vacation "It was my position at the time"

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#536 - 2014-03-28 19:53:08 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

Fair enough. Well spoken.

I"m absolutely sure some knuckleheads will try to cite this case after "losing emotional control" to get compensation for a gank or war dec (which will be unsuccessful of course).

I'm a bit concerned about people throwing a fit just to force a person to back away from a scam or prank... but hopefully that flexibility built into CCP's official stance will keep people from abusing it as a "you can't touch me" card.


Unsurprisingly, we also raised this issue.

Let's just say that anyone attempting to use this ruling for metagaming is going to be very unsatisfied with the results.

They'll probably complain about it for months in the forums of whatever MMO they go on to play next.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Kaius Fero
#537 - 2014-03-28 19:53:30 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
,,,.

I feel your hot.

Im no gay, but ... nudge nudge ... you know what I mean .. do your wife make sports? Or photographs?

Anselmo & The Illegals
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#538 - 2014-03-28 19:53:51 UTC
Khan D'Amarr wrote:


Different situation entirely so I have no idea.


Ya, **** someone off, permaban, try to get them to kill themselves, 3 months. Seems legit

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Khan D'Amarr
Doomheim
#539 - 2014-03-28 19:53:52 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Asia Leigh wrote:
Khan D'Amarr wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


"I guess you have to draw the line at the point where the victim starts to lose emotional control, and that's a different place for everyone and every situation. And there has to be a willingness to recognize that line and honor it with humane behavior. I don't get a sense from Erotica's recording that there was any intent in ever doing that. Not one bit."



So Mittani should have been banned in this environment is what youre saying.

Also; any time someone ganks a miner and the miner rages, they ganker will be banned? That meets that emotional requirement that this seems to need. That will change this game HUGELY if true


He was banned in this environment. 3 months or so iirc


So Telling someone to go off themselves is worth 3 months, While making a snide remark about someones speech impairment is worth a perma? Please tell me more about how thats even remotely fair...


Kinda the point was looking at thank you


From what I understand t was ongoing. He was actually kicked form Goons for being too extreme. There are several recordings out there that have him asking people to do various things with peanut butter and/ or mayo. Read the thread.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#540 - 2014-03-28 19:55:09 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:

So Erotic is just 3 months banned, not permabanned then?


Maybe.

Hang on to your little johnny for the next three months for the definitive answer.

Mr Epeen Cool