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An Announcement Regarding Real Life Harassment

First post First post First post
Author
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#321 - 2014-03-28 17:33:43 UTC
fudface wrote:
Kirsi Kirjasto wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Thanks CCP and I hope you never do take the sand box out of the game.



I'm waiting for Erotica 1 to post before I assume this.


from what i saw of that imgur link that was posted he cant log in.

+1 CCP

looks like there is a limit to what you can get away with.


Accounts are always suspended when they're under investigation so gg Ripar Teg for using your position to prevent another player from being able to play eve. I think there's something in the EULA about that too.
Kinis Deren
Mosquito Squadron
D0GS OF WAR
#322 - 2014-03-28 17:33:46 UTC
Just a thought ....

Are there any plans to issue the OP as a press release to the gaming media?

I'm thinking it might alleviate some of the fears many potential customers have expressed in comments, on various gaming news sites, in relation to the latest cyberbullying event.
Talia Prime
Imperial Militia
#323 - 2014-03-28 17:35:11 UTC
PinkPanter wrote:

So why reply. makes you feel special for calling people out as "attention seekers" lol? Or you want to get a lot of "likes" for being awesome?
Also attention seeking is a interesting term. My life is pretty ******* awesome and I'm here to play a game. Don't like things so I move on. So explain that term to me again cause I'm genuinely confused what are you referring to.
I simply said I will do that if we are left dark again so just confirming my word for CCP to acknowledge it.



Hold on, you're claiming you're selling your character and quitting because of the lack of action by CCP over this matter. Yet your character was up for sale before the main thread in GD and even before Jester made his blog post........
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#324 - 2014-03-28 17:35:17 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
Sturmwolke wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:

CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.


Good post, but I'd like a clarification on "disciplinary action against game accounts".
Does this constitute all known accounts held by the player? or just a single account?


There's no single rule for that, it's always a case by case decision based on internal guidelines and precedents.



Ok you see something right there that I must point out.

The people who would have the most trouble with "case by case" would be my fellow Americans. You see the non-education system is full of people who set out to destroy the jury system. The original jury system in America had the "power" to "judge both the case and the law". This meant that the jury has (or had, before everybody was convinced otherwise) the ability to say that in a specific case the law may or may not apply or that the actions of a defendant or belligerence of a plaintiff are justified or not.

This is gone now. America is all about "min max" to ensure a system of control. Hence our prisons are filled with people incarcerated for years over victimless crimes because of "mandatory sentencing" and that judges give juries "rules" to follow. If an educated juror informs the judge that these rules hold no weight, the juror gets kicked out at least or charged for contempt at worst.
(and I've been thrown out of juries for bringing this up - it's the BEST way to avoid jury duty: by sticking up for the jury system in our corrupt courts)

So, anything that's considered "case by case" in American culture causes people to go into seething rages because the first thing they think of is the "all white jury" concept, which they were indoctrinated into living in fear of in school. They were never told that in these past cases of "all white juries" it was in fact a deconstruction of the original intent of the jury system, NOT a problem they need to be brainlessly twitter hashtaging about.

For that matter, a jury of one's peers was denied but in the railing against this implanted fear, a jury of one's peers is exactly what ends up being denied to many defendants.

(the same trendy sort falling into this trap would use the word "irony" at this point).


But the bottom line is that the best justice is in fact resting on the judgment of a specific case and the rules involved PER THE CASE. We have had decades of "because of this ruling then, therefore the ruling has to be that now or else everybody is a racist/bigot/homophobe if they don't agree" and now our prisons are overcrowded (and full of the very people that these ideals claim to protect. ).


So to see that CCP goes on a case by case basis is a good thing, which as owners of this content they also have every right to do no matter how many agendized players rail against it on the forums.

Hopefully my fellow Americans can embrace this concept as it was in the foundation of our jury system long ago.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#325 - 2014-03-28 17:35:34 UTC
Well from the well thought out statements made by CCP, "personally" I believe the following example gives a pretty good idea of where the line is drawn.

Not allowed:
Using EVE to relentlessly harass a character in game for the sake of harassment, beyond all normal standards justifiable in game action. in other words, blow him up repeatedly during a war dec as opposed to singling out 1 guy and following him where ever he goes for an extended period of time to kill him for no justifiable in game reason.

Acquiring and using real life information to contact or harass the person in real life, or to make real life threats against them while in game. This would include contacting them on the phone, mail, or in person... or circulating their contact information.

In both of these cases you cannot get away from the person doing the harassment.

Allowed:
All the normal in game scamming, drawing the line at extorting real life currency from a victim.

Giving people a hard time in chat or verbally where their anonymity is still preserved, including inviting a person to your own TS server for the purposes of giving them a hard time.

In both of these examples the person is participating voluntarily, and can disengage from the situation at any time. Of course, they might have lost some ISK (or pride) before they make that decision.


I could easily be off base, but that's my sense of it.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Kristalll
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#326 - 2014-03-28 17:36:00 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Well at least it's clear now. If anyone does anything you don't like in game, post a ticket with tears, tell them you are feeling upset and demand the other party be instantly banned. If they aren't going to draw lines, and are going to arbitrarily ban people, then we shouldn't assume line ans should report any time something happens in game that we dislike, right? We don't want to assume that it was all find and then later realise it was harassment all along.


This very may well devolve into a new FLOOD of petitions linking all kinds of things. FC's freak out in comms and a spy will send it to CCP and say "Shadoo was berating this young FC in comms in front of everyone! The young FC had to just take it or risk being kicked out of the corp!"

At least in THAT case Shadoo did something mean.

“Die trying” is the proudest human thing.

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#327 - 2014-03-28 17:36:20 UTC
Talia Prime wrote:
PinkPanter wrote:

So why reply. makes you feel special for calling people out as "attention seekers" lol? Or you want to get a lot of "likes" for being awesome?
Also attention seeking is a interesting term. My life is pretty ******* awesome and I'm here to play a game. Don't like things so I move on. So explain that term to me again cause I'm genuinely confused what are you referring to.
I simply said I will do that if we are left dark again so just confirming my word for CCP to acknowledge it.



Hold on, you're claiming you're selling your character and quitting because of the lack of action by CCP over this matter. Yet your character was up for sale before the main thread in GD and even before Jester made his blog post........


lol...
Kaius Fero
#328 - 2014-03-28 17:36:31 UTC
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
I have refrained from public comment on this issue because of all the ongoing CSM/CCP consultations, but now that CCP has issued their statement, I feel it is only appropriate to give my perspective.

Lying, cheating, general douchebaggery and the harvesting of tears are all part of the "sandbox" that is the game of EVE Online.

But that said, all of us have a responsibility to recognize when a fellow player is starting to lose emotional control -- when things stop being a game -- and respond in a humane manner. And deliberately trying to induce and deepen that loss of control is reprehensible conduct that should shock and dismay the vast majority of the community.

So the tl/dr for me is: Feel free be a douchebag inside the sandbox, but if you kick the sand outside of the sandbox, don't be surprised if CCP kicks you out of the sandbox as well.

Stuff like losing your sh*t on comms and bitching out the people in your fleet is not something I would worry about. Nor is making people sing for their ship.

But if you make someone sing for their ship and then sadistically wratchet up the psychological pressure until they are a total wreck, then you're a real-life scumbag, and I won't shed a tear if CCP decides they no longer care to do business with you.

Huh.. so this is official now? EVE is the game where you can learn how to scam, be a douche and overall learn how to ruin other peoples day? Well, then I call it an educational game and maybe it should be allowed to be played in prisons too. Also no court should be allowed to condemn an EVE player.. they learned all these skills in the game and it took years of training... they are heroes after all. Wonder how come no somalians play the game yet...

Anselmo & The Illegals

Josef Djugashvilis
#329 - 2014-03-28 17:38:03 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Man, I remember way back when, people would volunteer to sing to get out of a gank. "No ISK sing instead" was said in many local. Me, I demanded "Barbie Girl", that was my go-to for karaoke to save your ship.

Now it's all with the cyberbully and the torture and the bonus rooms and the doublesuperharassment....

Someone bring me mah walker and a glass of iced tea, I'm goin to the farmer's market.


Well I would be screwed if I met you ingame as I have never heard of the song, Barbie Girl Shocked

This is not a signature.

Mario Putzo
#330 - 2014-03-28 17:38:16 UTC
I guess If I have a question for CCP.

Where exactly is the line?
Salvos Rhoska
#331 - 2014-03-28 17:40:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Mario Putzo wrote:
Where exactly is the line?


Right here:


.
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#332 - 2014-03-28 17:41:02 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
It also means the author of the blog that started this whole mess going could also be banned for harassment, considering that no one's permission was asked and even the "victim" suffered because if it.

This is ridiculous, and you should feel ridiculous for posting it.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#333 - 2014-03-28 17:42:45 UTC
Kristalll wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Well at least it's clear now. If anyone does anything you don't like in game, post a ticket with tears, tell them you are feeling upset and demand the other party be instantly banned. If they aren't going to draw lines, and are going to arbitrarily ban people, then we shouldn't assume line ans should report any time something happens in game that we dislike, right? We don't want to assume that it was all find and then later realise it was harassment all along.
This very may well devolve into a new FLOOD of petitions linking all kinds of things. FC's freak out in comms and a spy will send it to CCP and say "Shadoo was berating this young FC in comms in front of everyone! The young FC had to just take it or risk being kicked out of the corp!"

At least in THAT case Shadoo did something mean.
I plan to report any time I feel like someone might be upset by a situation I'm in. It seems only fair. I shouldn't be punished for having thicker skin than some random pleb, so I think some random would be upset by a situation I'm in I'll be reporting it as an upsetting situation.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#334 - 2014-03-28 17:44:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Toshiro Ozuwara
Lucas Kell wrote:
I plan to report any time I feel like someone might be upset by a situation I'm in. It seems only fair.

That's a really mature response to the situation.

Since you're in Spacemonkeys and thus a frequent target for getting ownzoned, you are going to be sending a lot of petitions.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#335 - 2014-03-28 17:45:15 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
I guess If I have a question for CCP.

Where exactly is the line?


The line is where they decide to draw it.

Their game. Their rules.

Remember how cranky all the noob gankers got when CCP refused to state a specific line? They are being smart here. If they declare a line, then some psychopath will figure out how to weasel around it.

CCP is making the right call.

Mr Epeen Cool
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#336 - 2014-03-28 17:45:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Kristalll
Lucas Kell wrote:
Kristalll wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Well at least it's clear now. If anyone does anything you don't like in game, post a ticket with tears, tell them you are feeling upset and demand the other party be instantly banned. If they aren't going to draw lines, and are going to arbitrarily ban people, then we shouldn't assume line ans should report any time something happens in game that we dislike, right? We don't want to assume that it was all find and then later realise it was harassment all along.
This very may well devolve into a new FLOOD of petitions linking all kinds of things. FC's freak out in comms and a spy will send it to CCP and say "Shadoo was berating this young FC in comms in front of everyone! The young FC had to just take it or risk being kicked out of the corp!"

At least in THAT case Shadoo did something mean.
I plan to report any time I feel like someone might be upset by a situation I'm in. It seems only fair. I shouldn't be punished for having thicker skin than some random pleb, so I think some random would be upset by a situation I'm in I'll be reporting it as an upsetting situation.


In fact, we should also go out and report other peoples situations that might make them upset that we weren't even in, and without asking the victim if they have a problem.

Clearly that's what CCP is asking us to do.

(Assuming they DID in fact ban Erotica like it seems may have happened)

“Die trying” is the proudest human thing.

Kinis Deren
Mosquito Squadron
D0GS OF WAR
#337 - 2014-03-28 17:46:10 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Kristalll wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Well at least it's clear now. If anyone does anything you don't like in game, post a ticket with tears, tell them you are feeling upset and demand the other party be instantly banned. If they aren't going to draw lines, and are going to arbitrarily ban people, then we shouldn't assume line ans should report any time something happens in game that we dislike, right? We don't want to assume that it was all find and then later realise it was harassment all along.
This very may well devolve into a new FLOOD of petitions linking all kinds of things. FC's freak out in comms and a spy will send it to CCP and say "Shadoo was berating this young FC in comms in front of everyone! The young FC had to just take it or risk being kicked out of the corp!"

At least in THAT case Shadoo did something mean.
I plan to report any time I feel like someone might be upset by a situation I'm in. It seems only fair. I shouldn't be punished for having thicker skin than some random pleb, so I think some random would be upset by a situation I'm in I'll be reporting it as an upsetting situation.


LOL, good luck with that. Oh, don't forget, please let us know how you get on with spamming the petition system.
Big Lynx
#338 - 2014-03-28 17:46:18 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
I plan to report any time I feel like someone might be upset by a situation I'm in. It seems only fair.




You have completely epicly misunderstood the whole situation. plz biomass yourself now.
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#339 - 2014-03-28 17:46:44 UTC
Also, some posts are getting deleted. Just a heads up.

“Die trying” is the proudest human thing.

Helena Russell Makanen
DRRUSSEL
#340 - 2014-03-28 17:46:46 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Helena Russell Makanen wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
I have yet to see Erotica1 tell us he'd have a good laugh and someone being assaulted.



He is a sadistic sociopath, of course he would.


That's an assumption based on an presumed but not demonstrable premise.


Incorrect.

"If a miner needs to go to the bathroom, for instance, I ask that they dock up first, or at the very least ask the Supreme Protector for permission to go."  -  James 315 - aka - the miner bumper