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My choices as an AFK Cloaker and your opinions.

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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#121 - 2014-03-28 16:24:21 UTC
Anything AFK is stupid.

/threat
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#122 - 2014-03-28 16:29:30 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
To answer your question, Unsuccessful, afk cloaking only works because of local.

Remove local from null-sec, like where I live, in wormholes, and things get a lot more interesting.

Also, I think your friend got perma-banned, or at least temp-banned. Havent seen any posts from him or any alts.

EDIT - nope, still here....shame


Luminous, Please stay on topic. Im not asking about anything previously covered under numerous F&I threads regarding cloak balancing or removal of local, only seeking informed opinions on my actions and the morality thereof. Im actually getting some great feedback via this thread and by Eve-mail.

Id also ask that you refrain from bringing events from another thread into this one. This is a different topic altogether. I would have placed a disclaimer as to "any resemblance to threads open or closed is purely coincidential", but that would have lead to immediate accusations of trolling on my part. I understand that you believe very strongly in your opinions, and I respect that. You put a lot of feeling into your posts, which leads to more emotional responses instead of logical ones. im trying to avoid emotional responses in this thread by asking for people to research beyond the negative literature on the subject, and form their own opinions based on the facts, instead of copy/pasted thoughts of other people. I respect your convictions, and welcome your opinions in my discussions.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#123 - 2014-03-28 17:11:43 UTC
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
Anything AFK is stupid.

/threat


Thank you for your input Inxentas! I agree that AFK gameplay might not be optimal. You do bring up a great point, and I will applaud you for that. Am I morally justified to use a style of gameplay that I find unacceptable, AFK gameplay, to combat that same style of gameplay? I will add that question to the op!

You see, one reason I do my AFK Cloaking is because many nullsec entities are finding themselves assuming absolute safety. Assumption of absolute safety leads ultimately to AFK mining, AFK ratting, Botting, etc, and I am looking to end those activities.

Inxentas, you have given me a great deal to think about.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#124 - 2014-03-28 17:18:04 UTC
{fingers still firmly in ears} Lah lah lah. Still not listeniiing.

Mr Epeen Cool
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#125 - 2014-03-28 17:20:31 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
{fingers still firmly in ears} Lah lah lah. Still not listeniiing.

Mr Epeen Cool


Mr Epeen, you claim to not be listening, as is your right, but I think im wearing you down. I know you are a fountain of opinions, and I would love to hear them!

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
SpaceSaft
Almost Dangerous
Wolves Amongst Strangers
#126 - 2014-03-28 17:53:04 UTC
This is so edgy I think I just cut myself.

Can we please just play the game and not care unless someone gets in serious danger?

I am sick of reading about this almost more than about the people actually doing this whole harrasment crap, because for each justified case, there are 4 whiners and 5 trolls. Frankly I'm surprised this is not locked yet.

It'd be nice to have a disclaimer on the log on screen along the lines of "if you get emotionally invested in this game, prepare to be hurt." if that's what makes people stop.

Yes cloaking is part of the game.

Yes risk management is part of the game.

No bullying people and tricking them into handing over all their stuff and making them do embarassing things for it is not cool.

Common human sense people. Get some.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#127 - 2014-03-28 18:08:24 UTC
SpaceSaft wrote:
This is so edgy I think I just cut myself.

Can we please just play the game and not care unless someone gets in serious danger?

I am sick of reading about this almost more than about the people actually doing this whole harrasment crap, because for each justified case, there are 4 whiners and 5 trolls. Frankly I'm surprised this is not locked yet.

It'd be nice to have a disclaimer on the log on screen along the lines of "if you get emotionally invested in this game, prepare to be hurt." if that's what makes people stop.

Yes cloaking is part of the game.

Yes risk management is part of the game.

No bullying people and tricking them into handing over all their stuff and making them do embarassing things for it is not cool.

Common human sense people. Get some.


Space, Im only after the opinions of the playerbase in regards to my gameplay choices. Ive explained in great detail that this is not that other thread, from which I have excused myself. You do bring up some opinions, which I thank you for sharing, but not for the questions/ statements I wish to ponder. Are you wishing my thread to be locked because of the negative publicity surrounding AFK Cloaking or even my reputation in the eve community? Id hate for those two things to cause you to give me an emotionally based opinion versus an informed one.

I agree in your sentiment that we should all get back to playing the game! I would love to see actual people playing the game instead of being AFK, or using bots to play in their stead. Would you care to weigh in on my question of whether I am morally justified to use AFK gameplay to combat AFk gameplay, eventhough I find AFK gameplay to be wrong? I look forward to hearing back from you!

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Maxpie
MUSE LLP
#128 - 2014-03-28 18:11:07 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Maxpie wrote:
Personally, I think cloaks should be changed to drain capacitor based upon the sig radius of the ship. They should be balanced in such a way that your cloak will eventually cap you out unless you are in something small, specialized (covops for example) or gimp your setup. Basically, there should be some kind of balance.


Thank you for your input. Im actually not after balancing of cloaks, only what the actions of an AFK cloaker are viewed as.



Sorry if I misunderstood your question. I don't have much opinion on afk cloaking one way or the other tbh. However, I think anything that is conducive to being afk is not a good thing for the game overall. Also, I'm not a big fan of things that have no realistic counter. If the afk'er had to gimp his setup, would eventually de-cloak, or could be found through some (difficult and time consuming) means, I'd probably view it as a good part of Eve. As is, I don't have any strong feeling against it, it sort of is what it is, but it's not really adding to the experience., imho.

No good deed goes unpunished
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#129 - 2014-03-28 18:24:17 UTC
Maxpie wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Maxpie wrote:
Personally, I think cloaks should be changed to drain capacitor based upon the sig radius of the ship. They should be balanced in such a way that your cloak will eventually cap you out unless you are in something small, specialized (covops for example) or gimp your setup. Basically, there should be some kind of balance.


Thank you for your input. Im actually not after balancing of cloaks, only what the actions of an AFK cloaker are viewed as.



Sorry if I misunderstood your question. I don't have much opinion on afk cloaking one way or the other tbh. However, I think anything that is conducive to being afk is not a good thing for the game overall. Also, I'm not a big fan of things that have no realistic counter. If the afk'er had to gimp his setup, would eventually de-cloak, or could be found through some (difficult and time consuming) means, I'd probably view it as a good part of Eve. As is, I don't have any strong feeling against it, it sort of is what it is, but it's not really adding to the experience., imho.


No problem Max, and thank you for your response! My AFK Cloakers do in fact use "gimped" setups in the ways of only fitting cloaks..or in special cases, a cyno. They have no offensive capabilities at all. They are only there to wage psychological warfare, not actual warfare.

But I am concerned over the comments and mails sent to me regarding my actions. Am I actually harassing people? Am I holding them against their will if they are afraid to undock due to my actions? Are my actions effecting the income of others in some real monetary that violates laws? These are what I am concerned about, and am seeking the playerbase's informed opinions on. I have a hunch that these comments were made to me in an emotional way instead of a logical one, and I want people to weigh in on the matter.

I agree that being AFK is not good for the game overall. Would you care to weigh in on my question "Am I morally justified using the AFK style of gameplay to combat the AFK style of gameplay?" I have a feeling you have enough facts to give me an informed opinion on the matter.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#130 - 2014-03-28 18:50:08 UTC
So in other words, you only prey on the weak and don't accomplish anything noteworthy in the process.

You are not relevant, but thanks for trying the nerf cloak thread, it was more counter productive than you think since we try not to listen to people who don't matter.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Maxpie
MUSE LLP
#131 - 2014-03-28 19:05:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Maxpie
Edit: bah forums at my post.

Short version: While I think it's cheap and unbalanced, and not particularly moral, it's ok for you to do it imo and also ok for your opponents to give you grief (so long as everyone stays within the rules).

No good deed goes unpunished
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#132 - 2014-03-28 19:06:45 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
I am an AFK cloaker.

-I endure lots of harassment in local via questions about my parentage,my intelligence, my mothers bedroom activities, the size of my manhood, even my own sexual preference... am I also considered a victim?
-.


Grab the chat logs and report them. See: http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/eve-eula/

Taken from the above link:
Quote:
You may encounter and converse with people who are rude, offensive, belligerent, and who may use indecent, obscene, and/or threatening or harassing language while playing the Game or otherwise interacting within EVE. You may report any instances of such behavior to CCP. CCP will investigate and take such measures as CCP, in its sole judgment, determines are reasonable under the circumstances. CCP does not guarantee that you will not encounter behavior of others that you may view as insulting, demeaning, offensive, threatening or harassing. You assume all risk associated with playing the Game, and CCP assumes no responsibility for the conduct of any other players, and shall not be liable to you or any other person for their conduct.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#133 - 2014-03-28 19:24:36 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Grab the chat logs and report them. See: http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/eve-eula/


Estella, Thank you for your input! Im not interested in condemning the actions of these people. Their responses are more emotionally driven than factual. If they had the facts, or tried to look beyond the negative literature on the subject of AFK Cloaking, they might not be making those comments, and instead may respect what I do, or my reasons behind my actions. As Ive said before, I have a rather thick skin, and find their comments amusing. Im only concerned because other have pointed out that their comments might make me the victim of abuse, and I am under the impression that abuse is relative, and is only abuse if the person considers it to be abuse, which I don't. I also don't feel the need to run to CCP everytime someone calls me names or questions my sexual preference, or even talks about my mother's activities and or whereabouts during the night time. Anything can be taken as abuse, even someone who repeatedly says hello to me in local, if I choose to view it that way.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#134 - 2014-03-28 19:34:06 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:
So in other words, you only prey on the weak and don't accomplish anything noteworthy in the process.

You are not relevant, but thanks for trying the nerf cloak thread, it was more counter productive than you think since we try not to listen to people who don't matter.


Thank you BoBo! Your opinion of me as a preditor is noted. Might I inquire as to the reasoning behind your opinion? Have you yourself been on the receiving end of being AFK Camped? Because if you were, you are one of the demographics I am seeking opinions from! Did you feel trapped or held against your will by my actions? Would you consider my AFK camping to be a form of abuse or harassment? If I was camping you or your group, you may have show your willingness to AFK mine or AFK rat, or even use bots to play the game for you. Would you find my using AFK gameplay to combat AFK gameplay to be morally acceptable?

As for your assumption that this is a "nerf cloak" thread, I am not seeking any balance at all when it comes to cloaking. I don't believe it to be out of balance, and I have made those comments very known in the appropriate AFK Cloaking threads. If you have any comments about balancing, I would suggest you make them there in one of those existing threads.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#135 - 2014-03-28 19:41:58 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Thank you for your input Inxentas! I agree that AFK gameplay might not be optimal. You do bring up a great point, and I will applaud you for that. Am I morally justified to use a style of gameplay that I find unacceptable, AFK gameplay, to combat that same style of gameplay? I will add that question to the op!

You see, one reason I do my AFK Cloaking is because many nullsec entities are finding themselves assuming absolute safety. Assumption of absolute safety leads ultimately to AFK mining, AFK ratting, Botting, etc, and I am looking to end those activities.


That's such a weak line of reasoning that I doubt you actually believe it.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#136 - 2014-03-28 19:57:53 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Thank you BoBo! Your opinion of me as a preditor is noted. Might I inquire as to the reasoning behind your opinion? Have you yourself been on the receiving end of being AFK Camped? Because if you were, you are one of the demographics I am seeking opinions from! Did you feel trapped or held against your will by my actions? Would you consider my AFK camping to be a form of abuse or harassment? If I was camping you or your group, you may have show your willingness to AFK mine or AFK rat, or even use bots to play the game for you. Would you find my using AFK gameplay to combat AFK gameplay to be morally acceptable?

As for your assumption that this is a "nerf cloak" thread, I am not seeking any balance at all when it comes to cloaking. I don't believe it to be out of balance, and I have made those comments very known in the appropriate AFK Cloaking threads. If you have any comments about balancing, I would suggest you make them there in one of those existing threads.


No I am not, I think bitching or otherwise commenting on cloaking is useless for both sides, AFK aspects of any gameplay even more so. Who cares if you scared people, you do the same thing when you pod them.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#137 - 2014-03-28 20:07:24 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Assumption of absolute safety leads ultimately to AFK mining, AFK ratting, Botting, etc,
That's such a weak line of reasoning that I doubt you actually believe it.


I do believe it, quite strongly! It is something that has been repeated in most other games! As soon as a player feels there is no one to stop them, they ultimately start doing other things while "playing". Sure, first its just running to the bathroom while not in a typically "safe" area..no ones around..who cares? Then its letting your gatherer acquire resources while youre doing the dishes! Then its "im going to go watch a movie while this is building". Soon, the perception of safety leads to botting to do these mundane tasks in game for them while they do more important things. This is why bot programmers are so successful, because they will always have customers who have better things to do!

I don't believe that these activities are actually playing the game. But it does lead to my questioning of whether its OK to use AFK gameplay to combat AFK gameplay..especially if I have such strong objections to it.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#138 - 2014-03-28 20:33:13 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Guys, I see we are getting slightly off topic.

Lets keep cloaking balance issues and local removal for the F&I threads please. Im after opinions on my style of gameplay.


Thank you.

I like cake Big smile
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#139 - 2014-03-28 20:34:34 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
I am an AFK cloaker.

I admit that I use AFK cloaking...and lately...AFK noobing... to wage psychological warfare on systems of carebears.

I pray on people's fear of the unknown. I make them afraid of the boogeyman. They become their own worst enemy.

I do this while I am at work, more than 40 miles away from my home computer. I log several accounts on position them in the systems of my interest, and go to work. I don't see them again for 10 hours..or more.

I would like some actual feedback on the following:

-Am I within the bounds of "emergent gameplay"?
-Are my despicable activities allowed under the Eve Online Tos or EULA in peoples opinions?
-Does psychological warfare of this type construe harassment in the eyes of the Eve populace?
-If someone is unwilling to undock because of my actions, am I holding them against their will?
-If I am affecting the virtual income of others, and ISK can buy PLEX which has real world value, Am I violating any monetary laws in peoples opinion?
-I endure lots of harassment in local via questions about my parentage,my intelligence, my mothers bedroom activities, the size of my manhood, even my own sexual preference... am I also considered a victim?
-Am I morally justified to use a style of gameplay that I find unacceptable, AFK gameplay, to combat that same style of gameplay?

I don't expect any official Dev or GM responses. I will put in separate support tickets to get official answers if and when I seek them. What I am after is the opinions of the population who play the game on the above issues. All I ask is that people be civil and respectful towards each other in this thread. Thank you in advance for your responses.

Homoginus Spear.....is that you?
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#140 - 2014-03-29 00:48:28 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Homoginus Spear.....is that you?


Negative Hawkeye. That does not appears to be one of my nooblets or vets. Big smile

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?