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An Announcement Regarding Real Life Harassment

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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2014-03-28 14:41:00 UTC
Tyburn Stannis wrote:
Oh great, another imminent threadnaught of people too busy waving placards to understand two basic principles of online games.

CCP will never make a definitive list of what is or is not harassment, griefing, exploits etc... because a) every case is different, and b) don't ever lock yourself into arbitrary precedents.

CCP will never tell you what actions they have or have not taken against any particular pilot, corporation, alliance, account or player. Confidentiality. It's a thing.

Good few folks round here need to the keyboard down and step away from the internet...

It's sunny outside. See ya.

o/


Not here it's not. The sun went down five hours ago.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#142 - 2014-03-28 14:41:38 UTC
Kethry Avenger wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Hello everyone,

For the last few weeks the community has been debating the topic of real life harassment, and its connection to the EVE Universe. The EVE Universe Community Team has been working on this issue for some time now, and has had extensive discussions about it with your elected representatives, the Council of Stellar Management.

EVE is a virtual world whose inhabitants have more freedom to play the villain and experiment with various backhanded tactics than in any other MMO. The freedom to scam and commit piracy, espionage, and extortion are all fundamental to the EVE Online experience, and CCP will never change that. However, it is important to remember that the EVE universe is a virtual world, and behavior of this nature should remain firmly within that virtual world.

While the content of online interactions between players cannot realistically be gated within our game worlds, CCP strongly disapproves of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against our players in the outside world.

CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.

Harassment poses a potential problem in any virtual world, and CCP has dealt with cases of this nature for more than a decade. We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior.

As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.

- The EVE Universe Community Team



So in a hypothetical situation where you are able to scam someone of all their in-game assets(which is totally fine). If after accomplishing this fact you use their greed, and sense of helplessness and the emotional value those assets have to them to harass and humiliate a player for 2 hours, including harassing other people in the room , then post this online, and link to it. That person would be permanently banned from this community and game correct? With some level of punishment including up to and including permanent bans for any accomplices.

If that was the case I could continue to play this game with a clear conscience. If that was not the case and this hypothetical person was ever seen in game again. I'm not sure I could support CCP with my income, no matter how much I enjoy the game and its stories.


Asking someone to sing songs to get isk in a single two hour session is not "harassment" or "humiliation". It's silly nonsense - perhaps a bit mean, if it's done tauntingly, but it's not harassment or abuse.

Hope this helps :)
Qalix
Long Jump.
#143 - 2014-03-28 14:43:36 UTC
This was handled much like the Somer Blink issue was handled. A vague response that hits everyone's sweet spot (harassment is bad; evil is good), but makes no real claims or promises, and then a withdrawal into silence. Sigh.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#144 - 2014-03-28 14:44:33 UTC
Also, I wonder how CCP view CSM members creating deliberate, inflammatory bad press and purposefully spreading it around to news media simply because they raised an issue and CCP didn't agree with them and do what they said.

I don't expect to find out, but I don't imagine they like that at all.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#145 - 2014-03-28 14:47:41 UTC
I think the behaviour and attitude Salvos demonstrates in these threads is toxic for the community. He repeatedly expressed the personal joy he'd feel if other members of the community were physically assaulted, and has demonised as many people as he could to try and push his agenda.

It's rather gross.
Kaius Fero
#146 - 2014-03-28 14:47:52 UTC
Does anyone have already a subtitle for what CCP said? Or they just talking without saying anyhting?

Anselmo & The Illegals
tasman devil
Puritans
#147 - 2014-03-28 14:49:28 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Hello everyone,

For the last few weeks the community has been debating the topic of real life harassment, and its connection to the EVE Universe. The EVE Universe Community Team has been working on this issue for some time now, and has had extensive discussions about it with your elected representatives, the Council of Stellar Management.

EVE is a virtual world whose inhabitants have more freedom to play the villain and experiment with various backhanded tactics than in any other MMO. The freedom to scam and commit piracy, espionage, and extortion are all fundamental to the EVE Online experience, and CCP will never change that. However, it is important to remember that the EVE universe is a virtual world, and behavior of this nature should remain firmly within that virtual world.

While the content of online interactions between players cannot realistically be gated within our game worlds, CCP strongly disapproves of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against our players in the outside world.

CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.

Harassment poses a potential problem in any virtual world, and CCP has dealt with cases of this nature for more than a decade. We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior.

As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.

- The EVE Universe Community Team

Good Talk

Now... what happens to our two lovebirds?

Namely:
Erotica1 - who has committed harassment of bannable to life proportions
Sohkar - who -although enraged beyond measure at that point- posted life threats on the voice chat

So what now?
To punish them both (Ero1 - life ban, Soh - 30 days ban) would be a hard but justifiable course of action.

I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#148 - 2014-03-28 14:50:20 UTC
Thank you for the clarification, CCP.

Please clarify.

I have no idea what that means.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Salvos Rhoska
#149 - 2014-03-28 14:51:09 UTC
Kaius Fero wrote:
Does anyone have already a subtitle for what CCP said? Or they just talking without saying anyhting?

Stands to reason that if any future conduct fits the specific wording in the statement, action will be taken.

EULA/TOS has not changed, but the statement reinforces they will act on any such future incidents.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#150 - 2014-03-28 14:51:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
I think the behaviour and attitude Salvos demonstrates in these threads is toxic for the community. He repeatedly expressed the personal joy he'd feel if other members of the community were physically assaulted, and has demonised as many people as he could to try and push his agenda.

It's rather gross.


Yep, and it's that same guy who has the single highest post count in the thread that got locked, the thread where he tried to internet lawyer a guy into a ban for being toxic to the community.

It's like I've said before, the so called good guy/freedom fighter types (Salvos, Ripard, ect ect) in EVE are the real problem, not the Erotica1s
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#151 - 2014-03-28 14:51:16 UTC
tasman devil wrote:
Good Talk

Now... what happens to our two lovebirds?

Namely:
Erotica1 - who has committed harassment of bannable to life proportions
Sohkar - who -although enraged beyond measure at that point- posted life threats on the voice chat

So what now?
To punish them both (Ero1 - life ban, Soh - 30 days ban) would be a hard but justifiable course of action.


CCP Falcon wrote:


As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#152 - 2014-03-28 14:51:44 UTC
Kaius Fero wrote:
Does anyone have already a subtitle for what CCP said? Or they just talking without saying anyhting?


The summary is they repeated the stance they've always had: real life harassment is bad, don't do it. No changes to the EULA/TOS were made, and as normal they won't discuss individual cases/players.

So basically nothing changed at all. Unfortunately we still have to deal with the :moral high horse: brigade trivialising ****, torture, etc with their desperate, repulsive inflammatory posts, and even a few who are condoning real life violence.
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#153 - 2014-03-28 14:51:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
“You can please some of the people all of the time,
you can please all of the people some of the time,
but you can’t please all of the people all of the time.
And if you try to please all of the people at once, you usually come off as sort of an *******."
-Abraham Lincoln
Salvos Rhoska
#154 - 2014-03-28 14:52:54 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
It's like I've said before, the so called good guy/freedom fighter types (Salvos, Ripard, ect ect) in EVE are the real problem, not the Erotica1s


Who I choose to drink with, is my business. And doesn't make me a "bad" guy, no matter how you twist it.
But gf for making me respond.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#155 - 2014-03-28 14:54:51 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
It's like I've said before, the so called good guy/freedom fighter types (Salvos, Ripard, ect ect) in EVE are the real problem, not the Erotica1s


Who I choose to drink with, is my business. And doesn't make me a "bad" guy, no matter how you twist it.
But gf for making me respond.



Who gives a flip who you drink with?

I'm talking about your behavior as a person. namely "I'd laugh if someone hit Erotica1 in the face" and all the other crap you spewed in the now locked thread (and threads before it). I have yet to see Erotica1 tell us he'd have a good laugh and someone being assaulted.
OUTLAW RIOT P0LICE
Doomheim
#156 - 2014-03-28 14:54:56 UTC
LOTS OF POSTS GOT DELTED FROM THIS THREAD.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#157 - 2014-03-28 14:54:59 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
It's like I've said before, the so called good guy/freedom fighter types (Salvos, Ripard, ect ect) in EVE are the real problem, not the Erotica1s


Who I choose to drink with, is my business. And doesn't make me a "bad" guy, no matter how you twist it.
But gf for making me respond.


Who you choose to drink with is not what he was talking about. Still not reading anything I see. Nothing's changed.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#158 - 2014-03-28 14:55:01 UTC
I have refrained from public comment on this issue because of all the ongoing CSM/CCP consultations, but now that CCP has issued their statement, I feel it is only appropriate to give my perspective.

Lying, cheating, general douchebaggery and the harvesting of tears are all part of the "sandbox" that is the game of EVE Online.

But that said, all of us have a responsibility to recognize when a fellow player is starting to lose emotional control -- when things stop being a game -- and respond in a humane manner. And deliberately trying to induce and deepen that loss of control is reprehensible conduct that should shock and dismay the vast majority of the community.

So the tl/dr for me is: Feel free be a douchebag inside the sandbox, but if you kick the sand outside of the sandbox, don't be surprised if CCP kicks you out of the sandbox as well.

Stuff like losing your sh*t on comms and bitching out the people in your fleet is not something I would worry about. Nor is making people sing for their ship.

But if you make someone sing for their ship and then sadistically wratchet up the psychological pressure until they are a total wreck, then you're a real-life scumbag, and I won't shed a tear if CCP decides they no longer care to do business with you.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#159 - 2014-03-28 14:55:01 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
It's like I've said before, the so called good guy/freedom fighter types (Salvos, Ripard, ect ect) in EVE are the real problem, not the Erotica1s


Who I choose to drink with, is my business. And doesn't make me a "bad" guy, no matter how you twist it.
But gf for making me respond.


No, what makes you a bad guy is encouraging real life violence, and for trivialising real human suffering.

hope this helps :)
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#160 - 2014-03-28 14:55:35 UTC  |  Edited by: DNSBLACK
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Thank you CCP, as well as CSM who have been involved with representing the communities interests on this, for this clear and strong statement.

Lets all hope there are as few cases as possible of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against players in the outside world, so that all of us have more levity for content and enjoying the game, without everyone having to be suffer more restrictions necessary only due to the extraordinary detrimental actions of a few bad apples.


Well said and nice approach ccp. Now lets get back to new eden.

DNSBlack