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An Announcement Regarding Real Life Harassment

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Kristalll
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#101 - 2014-03-28 13:51:32 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Kristalll wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:


Rather than argue the point with your relentlessly disingenuous and tasteless self, i would simply advise you that everything you post will be viewed in that post-meltdown light.
Maybe once you've goaded someone to end themselves, without that being the aim of course, just a bit of fun, maybe then you can comfort yourself with some version of victim blaming. Or maybe the guilt will eat you down to the bone.




Just like ID Software feels horribly about how they are responsible for releasing Doom and causing columbine to happen.


Like i said: disingenuous and tasteless.





I don't see how not. On my stream you got to hear me and all the other agents be as genuine as we could possibly be.

Yes, if I was the catalyst that caused someone to kill people, I'd feel a bit guilty. But if that catalyst is causing the person to lose internet spaceship in a game that is literally about losing, killing, and taking internet spaceships, how is that my FAULT?

What about when someone kills themselves because they went AFK and their mission navy raven died in a mission? Whose fault is it then?

“Die trying” is the proudest human thing.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2014-03-28 13:51:32 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Ok, so the discussion about morality is over then Im assuming?

This is just after shocks and talking about the EULA, right?


I thought you wrote 'shots' instead of 'shocks' there for a second. And because of that, I did three shots of Johnny Blue Label. I really shouldn't be shooting Blue Label, it's too damn expensive for that. Excuse me while I get a proper glass for it.


Aftershocks is a brand of shot-liquer here so thats doubly confusing lol


I believe, in all honesty, if everyone right now could sit down and have a drink together, and avoid getting into a punch up over who gets to take Riot Girl home, I reckon we'd all have a great time, Ero supporters, dissenters, and neutrals alike.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Kinis Deren
Mosquito Squadron
D0GS OF WAR
#103 - 2014-03-28 13:51:59 UTC
Kristalll wrote:
Kinis Deren wrote:

I do gain comfort in the knowledge that CCP will use the full force of the EULA/TOS for real life harrassment - even if it is dressed up as Bonus Room in-character role playing.


Go inject reading comprehension.


You seem upset. I think it is time for your daily injection of medication LOL
Tyburn Stannis
Xenon Salvage Inc.
#104 - 2014-03-28 13:52:34 UTC
If all the idjits with named pitchforks would take a moment to calm down and read the MANY examples of CCP and every other game company under the sun who refuse to discuss individual cases, then maybe we could go back to having a "General Discussion".

Here is the standard response to reporting a player in-game via F12:

Thank you for reporting this to us. We will investigate and take action as appropriate according to the EULA and our Terms of Service. Please bear in mind that any action that may or may not be taken against any reported pilot may not be discussed with a third party. Any such actions will remain confidential between CCP and the player in question, as per our Privacy Policy which you can find here.

Sit there and demand your "right to know" about any particular case all you like, but the evolution (devolution may be more appropriate) of Eve Online into "World of Spacecraft" with all the accompanying entitlement horseshjit is getting rather tedious....

o/
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#105 - 2014-03-28 13:53:31 UTC
CCP: Define harassment. What are the core litmus tests for crossing twixt grey area, into 'harassment'?

Given the ambiguous nature of the term 'harassment', and the 380 page threadnaught where it was debated, what still remains to be heard in clear terms is how CCP defines harassment, ideally out of game.

Does it include *initiating* conversations with a victim, as opposed to 'accepting'?
Does it include some form of repetition, as opposed to single instance of asshattery?
Does the pursuit of ISK/Assets (vs pure abuse) lean away from harassment?
etc...

Sadly, your formal notation on 'harrassment' is so ambiguous that people can drive a truck through it, or more accurately simply not KNOW honestly when they are harassing someone (IN YOUR EYES) in the fricken sandbox.

p.s.
Did you miss that fricken 380 page threadnaught on Erotica1 entirely? Christ.

F


Would you like to know more?
Lady Areola Fappington
#106 - 2014-03-28 13:53:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Areola Fappington
Remiel Pollard wrote:


I believe, in all honesty, if everyone right now could sit down and have a drink together, and avoid getting into a punch up over who gets to take Riot Girl home, I reckon we'd all have a great time, Ero supporters, dissenters, and neutrals alike.



Good point. All I have is one of these little gag bottles of wine I got for valentines day. Bottoms up!



I'm so very scared right now.....


Oh god I was right "gag" bottle it was! This stuff tastes like rubbing alcohol, and hatred....and AFK mining. Ugh.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
embrel
BamBam Inc.
#107 - 2014-03-28 13:55:55 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
CCP: Define harassment. What are the core litmus tests for crossing twixt grey area, into 'harassment'?

Given the ambiguous nature of the term 'harassment', and the 380 page threadnaught where it was debated, what still remains to be heard in clear terms is how CCP defines harassment, ideally out of game.

Does it include *initiating* conversations with a victim, as opposed to 'accepting'?
Does it include some form of repetition, as opposed to single instance of asshattery?
Does the pursuit of ISK/Assets (vs pure abuse) lean away from harassment?
etc...

Sadly, your formal notation on 'harrassment' is so ambiguous that people can drive a truck through it, or more accurately simply not KNOW honestly when they are harassing someone (IN YOUR EYES) in the fricken sandbox.

p.s.
Did you miss that fricken 380 page threadnaught on Erotica1 entirely? Christ.

F




you know... most people tend to feel when it's starting to be funny no longer...

I bullied and got bullied in school and most of the time I knew quite well...
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#108 - 2014-03-28 13:56:06 UTC
Kristalll wrote:


I don't see how not. On my stream you got to hear me and all the other agents be as genuine as we could possibly be.

Yes, if I was the catalyst that caused someone to kill people, I'd feel a bit guilty. But if that catalyst is causing the person to lose internet spaceship in a game that is literally about losing, killing, and taking internet spaceships, how is that my FAULT?

What about when someone kills themselves because they went AFK and their mission navy raven died in a mission? Whose fault is it then?


As I (wanted) to reply in the locked thread if you have to take into account everyone's feelings while playing, no one would play any online games. Go and do some pvp shoot someones ship and turns out he had a bad day w/e **** and he rages over his lost ship and does something bad irl because of it, no one to blame but himself.

I hate it when people try to act like others have no will power, it's always someones fault but never theirs.

Psychotic Monk for CSM9 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 you want content in highsec? vote Monk
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#109 - 2014-03-28 13:58:57 UTC
Tyburnn Stannis wrote:
go back to having a "General Discussion".


you must be new here
this IS General Discussion, if there isn't a threadnaught per day filled with **** posting then something's wrong.

Psychotic Monk for CSM9 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 you want content in highsec? vote Monk
Marcia en Welle
Doomheim
#110 - 2014-03-28 14:00:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcia en Welle
PinkPanter wrote:
No, I'm selling my toons to convert them to ISK, giving ISK to my friends so they can continue doing what they like and I quit.
It's actually that simple.

Sometimes in life you disagree with things and you can either choke it up or move. Nothing extraordinary here.
My point is sometimes you need to make a statement or set a rule that will be clear to all and in best interest of the whole community.
CCP goes vague again and that's where my road parts.
I don't have that MANY accounts but it's something and while I'm sure it won't make a difference to them it will to me. I stood to my principle and honestly whatever you do in life that's how you should go through it.
I'm here for quite a while now but I know this is just a game and never really looked at it in any other way. One of many out there. :)

Good luck to all and wish you all the best. :)

Bye then. Although I seriously doubt you will actually quit, seems more like an attention seeking move to me.

Also, it is quite pathetic and self important of you to think that anyone really cares about whether you decide to quit or not.

If you are going to go, then go with at least a modicum of decency and without mouthing off and making threats on the forum. If enough people follow your move, then CCP will take notice when subscription numbers drop. Although I doubt that will happen.

Also. +1 for CCP statement. I don't really care what happened to Erotica, I didn't even both to listen to that audio. The main thing is the policy is correct and CCP implement it as they see fit.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2014-03-28 14:00:23 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:


I believe, in all honesty, if everyone right now could sit down and have a drink together, and avoid getting into a punch up over who gets to take Riot Girl home, I reckon we'd all have a great time, Ero supporters, dissenters, and neutrals alike.



Good point. All I have is one of these little gag bottles of wine I got for valentines day. Bottoms up!



I'm so very scared right now.....


I would have a drink with any eve player any day of the week. Even the Russian clown that aggressed me solo in his Cynabal yesterday, which I was beating, only to jump two frickin armour RR boats in to save him and kill my less-than-a-day-old PVP Ferox with only a Pilgrim kill to it's name, then lose my 1.7bil pod because I clicked something wrong on the selected item box, causing it to minimise and lose the warp button just at the moment it was needed the most.

He might fight dirty, he might have cost me 1.7bil, but I'd still drink with him. I'd still have a drink with the guy that called me an arsehat. I'd still have a drink with the Goonswarm 'recruiter' from last year that liberated half a billion from my wallet and two billion in BPOs from my possession.

I'd drink with all you sociopathic spreadsheet pedants.

I can't wait to go to fanfest next year. Every time I think about it my heart skips a beat.

No, wait.....

No, I've just had too much to drink, never mind.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#112 - 2014-03-28 14:00:27 UTC
embrel wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
CCP: Define harassment. What are the core litmus tests for crossing twixt grey area, into 'harassment'?

Given the ambiguous nature of the term 'harassment', and the 380 page threadnaught where it was debated, what still remains to be heard in clear terms is how CCP defines harassment, ideally out of game.

Does it include *initiating* conversations with a victim, as opposed to 'accepting'?
Does it include some form of repetition, as opposed to single instance of asshattery?
Does the pursuit of ISK/Assets (vs pure abuse) lean away from harassment?
etc...

Sadly, your formal notation on 'harrassment' is so ambiguous that people can drive a truck through it, or more accurately simply not KNOW honestly when they are harassing someone (IN YOUR EYES) in the fricken sandbox.

p.s.
Did you miss that fricken 380 page threadnaught on Erotica1 entirely? Christ.

F




you know... most people tend to feel when it's starting to be funny no longer...

I bullied and got bullied in school and most of the time I knew quite well...

I'm being quite serious here, and as the 380 page threadnaught made clear everyones interpretation on when the 'LINE' is crossed is DIFFERENT. So, all I am saying is how does CCP measure that line beyond a silly 'harassment' catch phrase, with clear guidance to people who will be operating in that grey area, to not cross said line?

Is that so fricken hard to understand? Because in all seriousness if I for example want to emulate Erotica1 in the future with a bonus room scenario, and I preface the session with the client making a statement that he waives all claims against 'harassment' by taking part, am I good to go and make a mockery of him?

380 fricken pages later, limp wristed ambiguity helps no one.

hmf.


Would you like to know more?
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#113 - 2014-03-28 14:02:11 UTC
"that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service."

Sounds good to me. Also sounds like this was clearly not a serious case of harassment.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Effect One
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#114 - 2014-03-28 14:03:00 UTC
I think we can all agree that real life harassment is a reprehensible thing.

CCP's redudant statement, designed to placate one half of the community, having been said, it's good to assume they will not be doing anything about the current case. With all the overhyped ludicrous nonsense being thrown around in the (now locked) other thread, I did think they might cave. Sorry for losing faith.

'This might be internet spaceships, but it's not rocket science to protect yourself and fly with a little common sense' - CCP Falcon
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#115 - 2014-03-28 14:03:08 UTC
I actually like vague definitions creating grey areas. It allows CCP to take action when they see fit and not being coerced either by law and order freaks or pastime lawyers that go "technically" on a case. A grey area gives CCP the agility to deal with these kind of cases that aren't clear cut. Enter the fog at your own peril.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Coffee Rocks
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#116 - 2014-03-28 14:04:03 UTC
*hooks thumbs in his bibs* Well, hello thar. Thought I'd just drop in with my barrel o' smug. Seems I need a refill. Ooh, lookie thar, it's all full!

:)

In all seriousness, thank you Falcon and Guard for updating the community on the stance of CCP in matters such as these. My thoughts on the whole deal should be well known, but I won't know if what I was calling for has happened or not (at least anytime soon). That was never my decision to make - just CCP's.

I do feel bad about one thing: we could have used that threadnaught to discuss how this entire underlying subject (harassment, abuse, and belittlement of fellow players) effects each of us in the long run in the realm of New Eden. But some of you chose to make it your agenda to derail the discussion at all costs. For that, I'm saddened.

For those that want to take serious stock of the whole discussion (and how it may effect us all) many players have written their views in blogs and I've collected them here.

You never fly alone - Broadcast 4 Reps | Twitter: @thecoffeerocks | Steam: CoffeeRocks
PinkPanter
Valhalla Drinking Team
#117 - 2014-03-28 14:04:27 UTC  |  Edited by: PinkPanter
Marcia en Welle wrote:

Bye then. Although I seriously doubt you will actually quit, seems more like an attention seeking move to me.

Also, it is quite pathetic and self important of you to think that anyone really cares about whether you decide to quit or not.

If you are going to go, then go with at least a modicum of decency and without mouthing off and making threats on the forum. If enough people follow your move, then CCP will take notice when subscription numbers drop. Although I doubt that will happen.

Also. +1 for CCP statement. I don't really care what happened to Erotica, I didn't even both to listen to that audio. The main thing is the policy is correct and CCP implement it as they see fit.


So why reply. makes you feel special for calling people out as "attention seekers" lol? Or you want to get a lot of "likes" for being awesome?
Also attention seeking is a interesting term. My life is pretty ******* awesome and I'm here to play a game. Don't like things so I move on. So explain that term to me again cause I'm genuinely confused what are you referring to.
I simply said I will do that if we are left dark again so just confirming my word for CCP to acknowledge it.
Marcia en Welle
Doomheim
#118 - 2014-03-28 14:08:19 UTC
Coffee Rocks wrote:
But some of you chose to make it your agenda to derail the discussion at all costs. For that, I'm saddened.

It was a GD thread, so to be honest, I would be surprised if that didn't happen.
Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#119 - 2014-03-28 14:09:18 UTC
I am glad CCP has taken a stand and drawn a line in the sand -box- so to speak.

Dont just [u]think[/u] outside the box, [u]Live[/u] outside of it...
Sato Page
Auctor Illuminatas Infinitum
#120 - 2014-03-28 14:10:12 UTC
Read: We know you are upset. E1 may or may not have crossed the line. We may or may not take any action. What ever we do or not do you will never know. Well done, well done!

Dinsdale Pirannha for [u]CEO [/u]of [u]CCP[/u]