EVE General Discussion

He's trying to walk me step by step through questions with obvious answers, so in a minute he can make an unrelated conclusion and say "HA!". I'm still not sure what his point is beyond him thinking the changes are a net nerf to the game when all things are considered.

Can you point up that nerf? I did not find anything significant in latest dev blog posts.

No. Those will be replaced by the fact that overall refining amounts will be increased. The small amount of extra minerals gained from high sec POS refining alone will counter the mineral loss from gun miners.

It's the reprocessing change. Basically this guy lives in low sec and grinds up modules to make ships rather than just importing minerals which any sensible person does. From this he's come to the conclusion that when you take into account gains and losses, everyone is going to be worse off after the change. He's now trying to base it off of something to do with the mineral market, which his understanding of is way beyond limited (go back and find out how he works out ore prices based solely off of ore sales history, it's a hilarious read).

Yup.

Ish, it's actually 72.36% and 1381.95 and works out to 999.9 trit but we can let that slide. So we'll go with 18% for arguments sake.

Facepalm. Yes. Is that really your argument?

Except your math is wrong, since you are applying it to both sides equally, which means you are assuming that gun mining account for 50% of the minerals in the game, which it does not. Last time CCP released the figures from that, gun mining accounted for 10% of the minerals in the game. (Ed - Before you start cheering in your seat screaming "we're a relevant portion", remember that the majority of that is people simply refining their junk loot and selling it because it's more profitable or just a pain to sell individually. That doesn't mean 10% of the production done in the game is by dumb people that don't realise how inefficient they are)

So let's break that down in nice and easy primary school math. Say I have 90 gallons of water and you have 10 gallons of water. The total amount of water between us is 100 gallons right? (90+10).

Now let's do our percentages, so you're goes down to 55%, and might goes up to 118%. So yours becomes 10 * 0.55 = 5.5 gallons. Mine becomes 90 * 1.18 = 106.2 gallons. Now you can see that the amount of water between us is 111.7 gallons (106.2 + 5.5), or a net increase of 11.7%.

Then on top of all of that, even if your figures were fact, how does more mining mean that it's a net nerf to the game? A whole new section of mining will have been opened up in the form of WH mining and industry which was previously very difficult and very lossy.

No, but a large amount of it will be, in the same way that large volumes of compressed minerals get shipped down now. And even if high sec did half the ore refining in the game without a POS, the overall yield would be 3.3% up (ed - that is 3.3% after you factor in the 45% of the 10% gun mining. So where it says 11.7% above).

The 45% nerf is utterly irrelevant to the majority of the game, since it's worth less than 5% of a missioners income, and is worth zero to anyone that doesn't loot wrecks (so blitzers, miners, producers, traders, etc).

They should look to a game called Mechwarrior Online to see how well showing your hatred of your players works out for you lol