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Stealth Bombers

First post
Author
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2014-01-29 01:01:19 UTC
Regardless of hwo silly the OP's other accusations are, i HAVE to reply to the "can gank smaller ships".

ive been in wormholes, hell, i was with SYJ for over a year back when they were C5/C6 and no one had failscaded yet.

the most amusing thign on the planet was when a SB decloaked near our cruiser/BC gang, because we would isnatntly lock and alpha them off the field with 1 or 2 guys before they could even launch a bomb/missiles.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#42 - 2014-01-29 01:32:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraph IX Basarab
raylu D wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
What is wrong with mobile ships being able to pick their fights? That's the idea, you trade defenses for mobility.

What is wrong with the length of time SBs take to train into?

Edit: Also I've looked at your KB and I don't see a single SB kill. And it's funny you said bombers are "good at killing small things" when they aren't unless the target is webbed, painted and going slow. Doesn't show a lot of credibility.

Did you read my post at all? I address your questions.

raylu C is my SB pilot.

Read my post - stealth bombers are the best ships for getting initial tackle on small things.



Which part? Let's not do this "look at my post" garbage because I've read your posts. So what if they are the best ships at getting initial tackle? That's only true if no one bothers to shoot the bomber. Ceptors have much better survivability. You answered none of my points.

Also being on a handful of kills with your bomber doesn't make raylu C your "SB pilot." Just the one that happens to fly SBs.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#43 - 2014-01-31 16:53:24 UTC
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LtauSTinpoWErs
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2014-02-07 20:20:53 UTC
If anything, I would say SBs need a slight pg/cpu buff. Otherwise, I think they are right where they should be. Although I would love for them to get a bonus to rockets as well Twisted
Galison
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2014-02-14 06:34:54 UTC
OP your an idiot lets be honest oh lets add a delay on locking on decloak what do you get anything small t1 or t2 frig sees you knows theres a delay eitehr 1 combat fit for pvp rushs you and in effect kill you assuming your in point range(bombing should only be done when you have a warp through so the range is meh) and 2 if your out of range my nemesis has 119k range on the torps and 130k lock with my fits just warp away simplly put a bomber with a lock delay on decloak is next to worthless against anything combaty with someone paying attention and would only be useful on hualers and barges and even the barges its iffy since as pointed out before they have a flight of lights. Again as has been said before a solo bomber is beyond meh same with a solo bomber bombing stuff your meh I dont think a single bomb can kill anything in one hit beyond a mwding t1 frig. You mentioned in fleets well guess what i could take 10 incursus warp in on something using a cloaking as a warpto and chanegs are anything short of a cap kill it(yes i know uber fit bs could likely tank and all but 10 incursus can still do a lot of dmg and cost NOTHING) in short bombers are fine the way they are.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#46 - 2014-02-14 16:07:06 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I'm pretty happy with bombers in the place where they are. It's nonsensical to try and claim that they make other frigate class ships not worthwhile, because torps are so utterly different to any weapon other frigate class ships use. And observational evidence shows us plenty of frigates doing plenty of things with no worries in the world about bombers treading on their toes.

I'm hoping that torps themselves get a rebalance, and when they do it's likely that bomber bonuses will need to be reworked to compensate, but right now, bombers are pretty cool IMO.


Yea, be totally happy with a ship that a cost analysis has shown out performs BS and t3's for grinding sov as far as cost and DPS goes, can fling wave after wave after wave of bombs with bomb code that frequently goes on the frittz and forgets its supposed to blow up the wrong bomb type and now we have people ISboxing groups of bombers.

Sounds perfectly balanced to me.


Let me help, if the Goon only uses one thing and one thing only to grind sov with, theres something broken about it, regardless of your 'opinion'

when will ppl stop calling for nerf because of goon's FOTM? really, this is getting old and painfull.

this is how many ship were nerfed to the ground.

what will it be next?

if your BC cannot defend himself vs a solo SB and die, that's not because SB is OP, it's because you are BAD at flying said BC.

and for frigs, lol, the SB is probably the worst choice to engage frigs unless bombing them.....
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#47 - 2014-02-14 18:06:56 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
SB are balanced.

basically any other ship equipped with a weapon system can eat a SB. Any ship able to deploy a flight of light drones can get rid of a SB. A SB can only harm BS and BC (and all these have drones).


Bomber attacked my Helios the other day.... foolish maniticore

In general, I'm pretty happy with bombers.

They are unique, with an interesting weapon system that truly is only really viable against stationary targets or large targets.
Their bombs are great anti-blob tools, but require work and coordination to accurate deploy.

They might be great for grinding sov structures, but even a small force can harass the hell out of a siege fleet.

If they create the equivalent of tracking computers for missiles (i.e. a module to lower explosion sig & velocity), they might need re-examining. But I don't see where they are overpowered in the current environment.

SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#48 - 2014-02-20 03:44:30 UTC
Are you guys really arguing siege fleet as a reason SB's are overpowered? Look just because you dumbasses only undock in carriers these days doesn't mean the SB is broken.

I remember another alliance we fought in the last year that tried a siege fleet concept right back at us and we shut it down handily with a few rapiers vagabonds and sabres. A small gang of dedicated harassers can really ruin a siege fleets day. Hell solo dudes in cynabals were giving our guys hell till I made the suggestion of sneaking recons into the fleet. Stop sucking.

As far as initial tackle of a bomber being op it's like you guys don't even know about interceptors and warp speed rigs. A ship that's only tank can be blown away by a stiff fart does not make great initial tackle unless you are dealing with complete morons.
raylu D
HELLSINKER
#49 - 2014-02-27 08:47:13 UTC
It's very interesting that everyone keeps pointing to individual things that stealth bombers can do and conclude that stealth bombers aren't overpowered. Yes, and as my post says, if stealth bombers could only do a few of those things they would be pretty balanced in my opinion. It's the fact that SB's can do all of them and are such a short train that makes them need rebalancing.

A lot of you have also grossly misunderstood what I meant about good against small ships. It's almost like you guys read that tagline and didn't read the part where I talk about initial tackle for gank, not 1v1 (though I have linked a very successful solo SB pilot, as tangential as that is).

"Seraph IX Basarab" wrote:
Which part?


Let's start with the very first part, where I answer your very first question.

Quote:
For some reason, they also are the only ship to have no retargeting delay after decloaking. This means that the only thing that can avoid being pointed by a stealth bomber is a pre-aligned frigate piloted by someone with really fast reflexes.

In lowsec and w-space, using a stealth bomber for initial tackle is uncounterable, which is why we use them.


Now go read the rest of my post to answer all of the rest of your questions.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#50 - 2014-02-27 20:05:56 UTC
You didn't and that doesn't show it to be over powered. It just shows you whining over a mechanic you don't understand. Simply tackling a small ship doesn't make the bomber over powered. Without OTHER ships, the bomber is as good as dead. Give me an AB AF and i'll kill 10 bombers by myself easily.
Psianh Auvyander
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2014-03-01 02:04:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Psianh Auvyander
People use stealth bombers to hit towers not because they're ideal, not because they fit the role so well, not because of their versatility, but because the other options are less than ideal, are less versatile. This isn't a problem with stealth bombers. This is the beauty of EVE at work, where players have thought outside of the box and found a solution to a problem created by other players. 'If we hit this tower with a fleet of battleships or dreadnoughts, our enemy will bring carriers and we'll be caught here. Instead, let's bring stealth bombers. It will take far longer to complete but we will have the option to leave if we must.'

Stealth bombers are decent (I wouldn't even call them good) at getting point on something, but they're not decent at staying there until their friends arrive. If a stealth bomber attacks a small ship, the small ship has an inherent advantage against a stealth bomber and should be able to easily dispatch it before friends can jump into the system and complete warp. If a stealth bomber attacks a large ship, its drones, neutralizer, and many other modules can very quickly render a stealth bomber's size and speed ineffective, allowing the larger ship to quickly dispatch the ship.

What we see here is advantages coupled with disadvantages. A stealth bomber can do one thing at the cost of another thing. This isn't versatility, it's balance.

I hope you'll truly read and appreciate the amount of comments from people who have spent a long, long time in stealth bombers rather than dismissing us out of hand and repeating your statements. Put simply, stealth bombers are not the issue to the problems you're assuming exist.

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raylu D
HELLSINKER
#52 - 2014-03-25 02:11:29 UTC  |  Edited by: raylu D
Psianh Auvyander wrote:
It will take far longer to complete but we will have the option to leave if we must.

Surely this is bad for content creation? Surely this is not good game design?

Psianh Auvyander wrote:
If a stealth bomber attacks a small ship, the small ship has an inherent advantage against a stealth bomber and should be able to easily dispatch it before friends can jump into the system and complete warp.

Generally when we do this, we have the heavy tackle cloaked next to the stealth bomber.

Psianh Auvyander wrote:
If a stealth bomber attacks a large ship, its drones, neutralizer, and many other modules can very quickly render a stealth bomber's size and speed ineffective, allowing the larger ship to quickly dispatch the ship.

You can point outside of neut, scram, and web range. The only things that hurt are bonused webs, bonused neuts, light drones, and really good tracking. Regardless, many targets don't have any of these.

Quote:
I hope you'll truly read and appreciate the amount of comments from people who have spent a long, long time in stealth bombers rather than dismissing us out of hand and repeating your statements. Put simply, stealth bombers are not the issue to the problems you're assuming exist.

I too have spent a lot of time in them. But unlike most of the posters here, I've used them for far more things. They're not overpowered at any one thing, but they are good at too many things. That's versatility, which in abundance is imbalance.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2014-03-27 23:31:02 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
i think people need to think more about new players.

how many months do players need to spend training in order to meaningfully participate in PvP beyond suicide tackle and blobbing t1 frigates?

bombers are an insanely important middle ground that allow for really fun and interesting PvP from low skillpoint accounts, able to group up and damage larger ships.

this is good. not bad.


gank catalysts day 1
EAF, AF not very long at all.
ceptor not very long at all.
decent dps in a t1 cruiser not very long at all.
i was involved in large null battles from 3 months of age.
now at a year old i am leadership group of a 7 year old pvp null corp. Low SP pilots can do a ton of helpful stuff in T2 frigs, faction frigs and t1 cruisers.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

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