Market Discussions

People who say this don't understand that risk encompasses far more than 'will my ship get blown up on a gate'. When you can get locked out of lowsec stations and npc null stations permanently, you can whine about your risk but until then it's nonsense.

i have made example in this thread how these changes can be exploited:

buy compressed minerals, refine them and transport them back to Jita.

if minerals price increase it will be even more profitable.

and you saying the same as a lot of us - these changes won't improve industry in sov null it only increase profit for some groups.

Wormholes have considerable risk, comparable to and perhaps worse than sov null. But it's obvious from my post I'm not discussing wormholes, but the other two things you claimed were the "riskiest" areas.

Heh I think Weaselior and I agree on something for the first time in ever. Anyway, I'm crossposting what I said in the Science&Industry thread on this subject with regards to these changes and its effects on low-sec capital building:

Most sov null refineries are already level 1 upgraded at the moment, so upgrading to level 3 ends up costing approx 42b isk. That doesn't include the opportunity cost of the logistics required to move 42b isk of freighters from low to null. Of course, not that many refineries across of all of EVE will end up upgrading to level 3. This is not just because of the prohibitive cost and effort of having to upgrade a station, but also because sov in null is constantly changing hands. Look at the Verite influence map from a year ago and the map is VERY different. The large majority of stations in sov space are simply not worth upgrading because of its region's volatility.

And if you are upgrading stations, you will only upgrade a few meaning that industry will be focused in those few singular systems. That will essentially paint a giant bullseye on them for attack or harrassment. And then it will take something like 6 months minimum for the sov holder to earn back the investment he made into upgrading said stations. That is an ETERNITY in Eve, especially in the sov game.

Assuming ALL THAT goes swimmingly well and without a hitch, the cap builder will need to have decided to move his production line from low-sec to sov space. Let's take a look at the extra logistics required -- extra fuel for more JF jumps, fuel for moving the capitals from null to low in order to sell them, clone costs for pod jumping your characters back to null for every cap you have to move, POS fuel for building the caps because refineries only have 5 build slots, and probably at least 2 extra cyno alts required to do everything. All this doesn't include the opportunity cost of the time spent doing everything -- such as moving the JF all the way to null or having to make a ton of freighter trips to your building POS from station with your 20m m3 of minerals, because if you do decide to build regular caps in null you have to do it on a scale large enough to make it worthwhile.

Of course if you are building on such a scale that expending all that effort gives you worthwhile margins over the generic low-sec cap builder, then your production business is large enough where you won't bother with crappy margins on overproduced Revs and Archons, and instead you're just going to go ahead and build supers.

But let's pretend for a second you're not some random pubbie idiot who is whining too much, and that low-sec capital building will take a huge hit. Building capitals in low-sec is so laughably easy in its current form. The entry barrier is so low that margins on capital hulls have become so small as everyone and his brother has invested in a capital BPO set and found a nice quiet station in low-sec with 50 unused build slots. The only actual change we'll see to low-sec building is lots of medium POSes with refining arrays popping up and possibly a slight increase in hull prices. If anything, CCP hasn't gone far enough in boosting null industry.

i see you don't bother to read (or you intentionally ignore what was said)

let's look at time$effort:

1 cyno jump - V0DF to Jan
5 jumps through highsec to Jita
1 cyno jump back to V0DF

that's 90 mill profit

if you want unloud everything in Autaris (next system to Jan) and contract it to red frog - more than 2 jf volums of minerals for 4 kk isk so less than 2kk isk per one jf .

so tell me how long it takes to do this?

So what is wrong with that? Why would you bother installing level 3 upgrades unless you hoped to earn back your investment at some point? Or is this a generic "grr goons" comment?

Funny thing is that the provibloc could also upgrade their stations and expect a return. Not because of their strength but just because no one wants to live there