Science & Industry

Wait, now I'm confused.

Until now I assumed that refinery quality went from High-Sec (50%) > POS (52/54%) > Outpost (60%).

But the POS figure is a fixed number, right? So the 54% is the max yield, regardless of skills? While High Sec gets a max of 72,4%. So that means the POS is still crap to reprocess at or am I understanding this wrong?

No, POS will reprocess like you had max skills + implant, so max possible reprocessing for ore and ice will be:
NPC station - 72.36%
HS POS - 75.25%
LS POS - 78.15%
upgraded outpost - 86.83%

(probably) due to old POS code, POS will always yield max results regardless of skills and will be an obvious choice for all HS and LS areas.

that is true, and yes, it's a bit odd

Actually you can just put up a PoS with a intensive refining array and get max skills. CCP can't code starbase code so the module like magic will just assume you have max skills. The player doesn't really mater. 1.5 billion a year starbase operation > 7.5 billion in plex worth of training. Infact you won't even break even from training all those skills compared to the time opertunity of just running a starbase in high sec for almost 5 YEARS.

Pretty messed up Imo.

Pro Tip: The best way to do it would just to use a trial account with your 21 day trial, make them your master refiner, they will do just as good at a PoS and you'll be set!!!

Can i ask what the point is of making the max refine 86%. A percent is based on 100% being the highest you can go so would that not make 86% 100%? Why change it from its current method, all its going to do is show people **** they arnt getting from refining and taunt them. I really dont understand this move.

With the current pain in the ass it is to upgrade a station and the ammount of isk that is required i really see the reprocessing changes also leading to an update on the cost and way to upgrade stations. As it is in nullsec it takes 6 freighter loads just with the upgrades and the platforms to get to tier 3. And thats not covering the immense amount of pi and minerals required as well so bringing the total to around 80 billion isk. If the fact that we cant reach 100% refine leaves wiggle room for future updates and with ccp saying they know the rorq needs more love i can see possibly the rorq becoming a mobile refinery able to push to 100% refine while seiged if the seige mod gives a bonus to refine skills while active. That would leave all miners happy, nullsec, lowsec, and whers, while pushing miners out of the saftey of empire for better profit.

Do I understand these changes correctly?


1) High sec refining of ores will produce the equivalent current mineral yield "IF" all the refining skills have been trained to max or the refining is done in a properly configured POS.

2) Refining in a POS will have extra work/risk moving the ores & minerals compared to using a station because of capacity limitations.

3) This is primarily being done to encourage some industry to move from high-sec to null-sec where higher yields are possible.

4) Max yields will be less than 100% to give CCP flexibility to make future changes.

Perfect Refine at all Highsec stations is broken from a game balance POV.




a.) To incentive moving your base of operations out of highsec.
b.) To offset the transportation costs when you have to move stuff from low/null to highsec to sell en mass.
c.) Nullsec Outposts have the chance of getting conquered, such that you lose access to all the materials within.



The refining changes are not made to boost the rorqual. Instead, boosting the rorqual is an intended side effect of the changes. They have blatantly stated they will rebalance the rorqual at some future date.

Ore compression makes more sense than mineral compression through module manufacturing. Since mineral compression is a very important component to capital, lowsec, and nullsec industry, it has major impacts on operations there. This change will also dramatically change the value of ore vs minerals, as we can no longer transform minerals back into an efficiently compressed form. This is a very interesting change.



Why do we need 100% refine on items? This has hinder game design for quite some time. Have you noticed all the minerals in the "extra materials" section of just about ever de-tiered ship? They couldn't add it to the base materials (which are altered by ME levels) because of players abusing 100% refine to spawn minerals. Frankly, removing the 100% module refine is healthy for the game. It means meta modules will fall in price, be more available for invention, and create secondary market opportunities that are entirely there at the moment.

Ore's will effectively have the same (or better) refine rates they do today. Furthermore, they will become the stable for mineral compression. This is an excellent change.



This does give players a reason to max out their refining skills.

Logic would suggest that better industrial refinements and techniques (ie, real research and development into techniques and infrastructure) would be available in a high population, "safer" environment, versus always-at-war, high risk environments for any kind of sustained settlement. Why would high sec, being safer and more populous, NOT have higher-end industry and manufacturing techniques than those available in nearly-nomadic, unstable, dangerous environments like out on the edges of space?

The logic of giving higher refining advantages to remote, dangerous, unstable, and lowly populated regions without the advantage of the brightest minds of industry is just plain dumb.

Goonswarm. Nuff said.