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New player, low skill friendly ship
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Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-03-10 20:48:26 UTC
Samedi Baron wrote:
Plato Forko wrote:
Caldari frigs straight-up suck solo. The options are awful, you can either fit dual web with rocket to hold a target in place but deal with awful DPS because you have to try and shoehorn a decent armor tank into your two low slots, or you go MWD and LM and have no fitting room left for any tank at all and get chewed up by drones because the ship is still too freakin slow to get out of its own way. To make matters worse, if you even dare affix a BCS or invuln field to come up with a fit that's actually decent, you'll have to consider downgrading or giving up your DCU and losing a rig slot for overclocking.


I would appreciate advice on an alternative race, ship and loadout


I would say he is wrong about this. The Rocket Kestrel is good. As are a number of Merlin fits. Being slow doesnt make a **** when you have dual webs and you or your target are sitting on a plex warp-in at zero.

I would suggest the rocket kestrel. I dont fly it, but people rave about it and I have fought it a number of times - Its good because you dont have to worry about tracking and transversal, and has a decent tank. Dont worry about dying a lot. It is a mistake a lot of people (myself among them) make early (and late) in their careers. Go. Shoot. Win or lose Lose. Learn. Dont worry about your kb efficiency or any of that other ****. Losing 100 T1 frigs is easly fixed.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
#22 - 2014-03-10 21:29:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Plato Forko
Being slow is not even the main issue, having to fight for a half-decent compromise between tank and DPS is. Of all the ways to fit all the frigs, the Caldari missile frigs are the most limited because they're bonused for missile damage, but they only have two low slots, meaning you can choose between BCS (DPS) or armor tank. If you choose DPS, your only option is to shield tank, which means you have to settle for less EHP because even one BCS will chew up a huge chunk of your CPU. If you choose to shield tank, though, you're giving up on dual webs and vulnerable to any blaster frig, all of which have more tank, more speed, and more DPS. So yes, basically, dual web and armor-tanked is the only way to fit a rocket Kestrel, and then you're limited to only those targets that don't have enough drones and tank to outlast your pitiful DPS until you pop. Quite a lot of frigs have drones these days, as well as a tracking or falloff bonus that will ensure some of their gun damage also lands.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#23 - 2014-03-10 23:31:51 UTC
Plato Forko wrote:
Being slow is not even the main issue, having to fight for a half-decent compromise between tank and DPS is. Of all the ways to fit all the frigs, the Caldari missile frigs are the most limited because they're bonused for missile damage, but they only have two low slots, meaning you can choose between BCS (DPS) or armor tank. If you choose DPS, your only option is to shield tank, which means you have to settle for less EHP because even one BCS will chew up a huge chunk of your CPU. If you choose to shield tank, though, you're giving up on dual webs and vulnerable to any blaster frig, all of which have more tank, more speed, and more DPS. So yes, basically, dual web and armor-tanked is the only way to fit a rocket Kestrel, and then you're limited to only those targets that don't have enough drones and tank to outlast your pitiful DPS until you pop. Quite a lot of frigs have drones these days, as well as a tracking or falloff bonus that will ensure some of their gun damage also lands.


Hmm I never had much of an issue killing blaster frigs with my rocket kestrel tbh. It's shield tanked can outrun any blaster combat frig and still comfortably scram kites.

FYI if your target can't hit you you don't need a tank. Why do you think the lml kitey condor is a complete ***** a lot of time.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Balshem Rozenzweig
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2014-03-13 11:42:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Balshem Rozenzweig
my main I started last october is a caldari and I can share a couple of things...

1) Condor is good and easy to fit: 3 x Light missile launcher / Micro warpdrive, warp disruptor, tracking disruptor and (optionaly: 2nd tracking disruptor, target painter of some kind or ECM shockwave) / ballistic control system, nanofiber internal structure. Rigs - the speed/agility ones and maybe 1 for dps.

This fit is a standard kiter fit. You have to avoid getting caught like fire. It means running away from any navy frig you see cause they can outtank and eat you.

2) Kestrel - I had many successes using the armor one (4 x rocket launcher 2 / 2x stasis webifier, 1x warp scrambler, 1x afterburner / 400 mm steel plate and a damage control unit II / rigs: the engineering one that gives you extra power grid, and some for armor or rocket launcher rate of fire).

Basicly - short range kiter. You wait on a plex till you get invaded and then hold the opponent at aproximately 7.5 km range (easy to set, and the scrambler seems to like it). At the same time you bombard him with rage rockets, because they work well against targets caught by 2x web. I had great fun with it after first month of game. Opponents that use standard frigs should not be able to hit you for full damage at that range.

3) Very low SP and still useful are ofc support boats. Condor is kinda one of those if you put 2x TD on it. You might have low damage and tank capabilities cause you're a young character but putting debuff on enemies optimal range/tracking can make all the difference in any kind of a fight.

4) if you experiment (esp. with kiting fits) remember thatn stasis webifiers and target painters are direct dps gain for you. Also remember than generaly people advise to avoid using rage rockets without dual web. So just remember about these modules and their role. Fitting your ship as it was a gun ship isn't a good idea.

5) Light missiles will often give you a great advantage as they have extremely good ranges. It counts most when you are in the fleet - people kill the target that's closest to them if they panick

6) remember about javelin rockets - they are good defense tool. When a kiter escapes your point switch to these and you still have a chance to chase him off.

7) consider if missiles are really your way to go - most ships use guns and in long term it will save you training time. You will have all the support skills already developed for ya no matter the race you fly. Drones are also a good way to go - drone boats are scarry :P

Sorry for my grammar and spelling - I just reread this post and got terrified :O

edfit:
8) the salvager is essential for condor :P Put it into the last high slot as an offline module. It will absorb heat when you use thermodynamics on your launchers -> longer dps damage from overheating <=> win

"NUTS!!!" - general McAuliffe
Verlyn
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#25 - 2014-03-23 22:51:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Verlyn
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Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#26 - 2014-03-24 04:16:47 UTC
Plato Forko wrote:
Being slow is not even the main issue, having to fight for a half-decent compromise between tank and DPS is. Of all the ways to fit all the frigs, the Caldari missile frigs are the most limited because they're bonused for missile damage, but they only have two low slots, meaning you can choose between BCS (DPS) or armor tank. If you choose DPS, your only option is to shield tank, which means you have to settle for less EHP because even one BCS will chew up a huge chunk of your CPU. If you choose to shield tank, though, you're giving up on dual webs and vulnerable to any blaster frig, all of which have more tank, more speed, and more DPS. So yes, basically, dual web and armor-tanked is the only way to fit a rocket Kestrel, and then you're limited to only those targets that don't have enough drones and tank to outlast your pitiful DPS until you pop. Quite a lot of frigs have drones these days, as well as a tracking or falloff bonus that will ensure some of their gun damage also lands.


Kestrel is so bad that i have more kills with it than your char has total.
Valatie
Void Lurkers
#27 - 2014-03-24 08:43:23 UTC
My record with shield tanked rocket condors and kestrels speaks for itself. They're good ships solo. Moving on...

If you are inexperienced and have low sp, I'd recommend the kestrel. I'd argue that the rocket kestrel is the least sp reliant and simplest ship to fly of any combat ship in eve. I've favored brawl ships ever since the beacons to plexes were moved closer to the warp-in point ages ago, but I suppose a light missile kiter could work.

Whatever you decide, good hunting!
Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
#28 - 2014-03-25 03:14:48 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Kestrel is so bad that i have more kills with it than your char has total.


i am sorry you can't afford a nicer ship
Balshem Rozenzweig
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2014-03-25 08:56:35 UTC
Plato Forko wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
Kestrel is so bad that i have more kills with it than your char has total.


i am sorry you can't afford a nicer ship


pro pvpers hunt rifters in hawks. Don't forget to "GF!" them afterwards

"NUTS!!!" - general McAuliffe
Utsukushi Shi
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-03-26 03:36:41 UTC
Suicide Kestral
Rockets
mse. Web. Scram. Mwd
Bcs. Dc.

You might have trouble with low fitting skills getting that all on but go for meta mods and fit as close to it as you can. Get in some fleets and x up as tackle. Train your missile skills to fit t2 rockets and fitting skills then work on support skills. Don't forget advanced weapon upgrades! Have fun man :).
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