EVE General Discussion

Half of it is irrelevant. Ships m3 doesn't change just because you are mining something else. if you have 5Km3 mining Veld, you have 5km3 mining Merc. You are limited by your space in total value you can carry. 5km3 of Merc is going to still be 272% higher than 5km3 of Veld.

Now you can cycle time faster on a MSM2 + VC, but you are only gaining about 175% m3/cycle vs a DCMSM2+Crystal each Cycle. So ultimately if you want to include time into isk/m3 you are looking Still looking at 107% more isk/m3 profitability over a time comparison, and I suppose I should have included time into the equation as well but eh it makes no difference real ultimately.

Thus you are still coming out way ahead every load of Merc is = to 2 loads of veld.

This of course doesn't apply to any other NS ore of course because they can also use MSM2 + Crystals. So you were right its not a straight up 272% advantage, it is a 107% advantage, and a 149% advantage when mining everything in Isk/m3/Time.

So NS is still far and away the best mining space. As it should be since you can be shot at with more frequency.

https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ore/

you will have to do the movement volume yourself by checking it in the market. The differences in moving volume between the ores vs market volume will determine your profitability margin for a particular ore. Then you take that ore and compare it to the one you want to compare it to.

As of today at noon EST, Veldspar was still the best HS mover while merc still remains far and away the most profitable.

Actually, you'll generally sell all ore in mineral form and all of the minerals will have enough movement to be relevant.

So let's see, taking into account relative yield so we can get actual income/hour rates... Looks to me like the highest high sec ore is Hedbergite. And it looks like the highest NS ore is... Hedbergite.

Um because when you mine you need to have someplace to put the minerals. You are limited to the size of your hold. Once you hit the top m3 thats where you top off.

Percentages aren't random at all they are based on the marketable rate of the items, you can easily find this rate by looking at the market window. This is where you get isk/m3 from (Isk per unit / number of units per m3.) You get your profitable margin from looking at the amount of product on market vs the amount of product that has mover. This is your profitability.

Isk/m3 vs Profitability.

While Veldspar is a weak ism/m3 unit, it moves faster than any other ore in the game, giving it higher profitability than other HS minerals, despite it having a lower isk/m3 ratio.

If you want you could just as easily compare it to any of the HS values it doesn't matter NS mining is always going to trump HS mining because the isk/m3 value vs profitability. The only place this is not entirely true is in the case of Spod whose heavy Trit component torpedoes its overall marketable value because Veldspar provide more Trit/Isk spent. But even then as a whole it is still more profitable than Veldspar, but not nearly as much as Crokite, or Mercoxit, or Arkonor.

Im sorry if you don't like the way the market works. But that is how it works.

Mind you if NS had a mining industry remotely as large as HS these numbers would be a lot smaller. But that is how the numbers work. Each m3 of NS or is on average 192% (145% factored for time) more valuable than a load of HS ore (assuming just mining everything.)

You can check it yourself if you want. Find your moving average of your ore of choice, then compare that to another ore, then factor in the isk/m3 and see where you sit. I promise you NS ore wins everytime.

And so it should, Risk/Reward and all that.

No, that is not your profitability. Isk/m3 is what you use to measure which ore out of a given set of ores you want to target for maximum gain. But profitability is a rate over time. There are a lot more variables to profitability than you are willing to consider, and that's because you don't really want the reality.

Well ores are generally valued by their mineral content and sold as minerals, so measuring their ore sales isn't going to get you accurate figures. Then again, like I pointed out the highest isk/hour ore is already available in high sec, and that's Hedbergite. So if you were to compare that with the highest ore in nullsec, which is also Hedbergite, then you get a 0% increase in profitability.

But it's not how it works. It's how you've worked it out, but it's not even close to how it works.

I can indeed check it, and it will show me that you are incorrect. Of course if I look at it wrongly, I might get to your figures like you have. You don't have much experience in mining or industry do you? It really really shows.

And I've given you the numbers too. And the blatant reasoning why you comparing Mercoxit to Veldspar is absolutely moronic. You need to take into account what a miner could make in isk/hour based on what actually would be available, not based on what the highest theoretical isk/m3 you could cram in would be if ore were infinite.

As for the Hedbergite, that's a bit old that data, since that's pre the grav changes and they are nto uncommon to see. But then I'm not stating that Hedbergite is the core of high sec mining, but since Mercoxit isn't the core of null sec mining and you don't seem to give a **** about that, then I may as well just go with what's available eh?

If you had even half a clue about mining, you'd know the ridiculous figures you are throwing out are totally off, and to be honest, anyone with half a braincell can see that. No wonder you live in the ass end of lowsec and fail to make isk so badly that you resort to chowing down on junk. Maybe if you stopped feeling sorry for yourself and learned some game mechanics rather than spewing out nonsense headline figures on the forum you might actually accomplish something.

EDIT: Oh, and I'm not saying NS ore isn't more profitable, I'm saying it's not measured in hundreds of percent more profitable, and it certainly isn't able to be sustained at the rates you imply. CCP have people that actually gauge this stuff based on actual server figures to ensure they aren't making things too out of balance.

Here, I even made you a nice table. Just using the fuzzworks values and the average pull of a max skilled Mackinaw, based on Hedbergite for null, Pyroxeres (the highest valued sustainable high sec ore) and your precious Veldspar (just because I thought you might has a sad if I didn't).

You'll see that Hedbergite has a 34% increase over Pyroxeres, so a miner looking to go for maximum profitability on sustainable ore in high sec is nowhere close to as dire as you make out.

Ore never had to be moved to HS to refine, you can get 100% refine rate pretty much anywhere, includeing null sec. The reason minerals were compressed into gun and shipped to null is for the exact opposite reason. When you factor in ease and safety of multiboxing and mining for huge periods of time, high sec mining was easier and not far off on profitability than null, so it was cheaper to let high sec miners do the mining and ship it down to null.

I'd be surprised if it changes null mining much at all. Sure it might increase a little bit, but mining systems with a decent refine are likely to be camped to hell making it harder to capitalise on it, and big fleets always attract attackers.

The change this will have is that high sec miners will be able to sell compressed ore at a rate over their high sec refine value, so people with a POS in high sec will profit well. Low sec indeed makes out well on the mining front since they will be able to ship compressed ore of a higher value. The guys gaining the most though will be wormhole players who will now have a viable means of self sustaining their industry wing and will be able to ship out compressed high value ore without having to build a rorqual.

Thank you that is what I have been saying for two days. People are not mining in NS now when it is more profitable, they certainly won't be after the changes.

God damn.

No you just don't read conversations. Granted I said it to your friend Baltec, but I said it numerous times yesterday as well.

Also FYI since you want to compare to something other than Veld

Hed > movement today 87K units @ 706 isk/ea for total market value of 66,000,000 isk
Ark > movement today 37K units @ 3300 isk/ea for a total market value of 125,000,000 isk.

Less than half the units sold, yet over double the market value. Strange NS ore sucks eh.

125/66*100 = 189% difference

I don't even want to compare it to Veld, looks like it was a nice day for NS materials, Veld had a good day today to 91M for 1.3B

Veld vs Ark today was at about 212% which is a little higher than average. But there is a lot of 4K+ sales of Ark pushing up the price a bit.