EVE General Discussion

You seem to have the impression CCP is being secretive about this big announcement they just made. Obviously its way deeper than just gun-mining, the nerf to module reprocessing is just one of the easier changes to understand and explain. The change is fundamental and elegant, and splitting up reprocessing and compressing will certainly enrich the game and the economy. I don't think CCP has been secretive at all about their reasons.

How?

We will have the exact same amount of minerals on the market if not more.

You will mine and refine EXACTLY the same amount of minerals come summer as you do do now in high sec. If anything there will be even more minerals on the market.

Not only is the amount of minerals provided by gun mining tiny but we also have the new POS which will provide more and the 20% more from null stations.

Its not going to be an issue, if anything we will see more minerals on the market.

Again though, this is because you are choosing to be inefficient. Even right now, pre-change that method is incredibly inefficient. It would be better to either mine minerals directly or aim for isk/hour and buy minerals.

And the net manufacture will go up. You could reduce gun mining to zero and still 20% increase in mining materials would push the overall volume of minerals pushing through the market up, because gun mining is horribly inefficient.

The amount of MARKETED minerals is tiny. That is because people who are reprocessing loot are directly producing with those minerals. They are not being put into the market as minerals but manufactured product.

If you reduce the amount of material gained from gun mining, you now force producers who rely on this source of minerals to buy from the market in order to maintain production. The 45% reduction to minerals is either going to be made up by them buying more minerals (less net minerals on the market) or reduce production by an equal 45% (less product on market).

As for the "bonus" it is hardly a bonus. First there is a direct reduction in refining amount, and the POS and NS benefits are in place to make up the difference in the proposed change to bring it back to 100%. There is no added bonus, everything is a net reduction, and with :effort: you can refine at a similar rate as you can now.

Since there is no new net increase to minerals entering the market(refine changes), and a net increase in minerals leaving the market (reprocess changes), you either need more people mining, or you need less people producing.

This isn't ******* rocket science man. It is simple math.

IF 80% of all production survives on mined minerals and 20% survives on Reprocessed minerals you end up having 89% on Mined minerals and 11% on Reprocessed minerals after these changes. To keep the status quo. This is of course ignoring the net reduction in availability of Low End Minerals as HS is getting a nerf to its total refine efficiency, and at best it is being taken to NS reprocessed at the old rate HS had, and brought back...for at best a net equality. Moreover this puts even further strain on mid and high end minerals sourced from LS and NS mining, which is going to put even more strain on the market.

In the end you are putting 45% of gunmining mineral requirement into a mineral market that is seeing a net 10% reduction (across all space bonuses included).

You need more people mining, or less production. That is it. At the end of the day this is bad overall for all industry, including NS.

Not sure what this has to do with anything I said.

There's obviously going to be less production if people retire their legions of 425mm railgun manufacturers. How can you possibly think that's a bad thing?

Or are you sad that you can't build 10bn isk of the wrong module and then press the big "whoops" button to undo everything?

You think the loss of minerals will hurt the nullsec market, but it also opens up huge opportunities for those same people, as there is more incentive to build in null than before. Or are you shocked that CCP is doing something that makes miners more valuable?

What 10% reduction?

You will mine the exact same amount in high sec in the summer as now. POS will be refining even more and Null up to 20% more. That 45% reduction in refining junk is so small it amounts to less than 5% of a mission runners takings if the mission runner kills and loots everything.

And while we are at it, how long do you think a ship building company will last if it makes no profit? Isk/hr is everything in this area.

The 10% net reduction in refined minerals is the average refining amount in New Eden, across HS, LS and NS. The economy of the game is not just restricted to specific security in encompasses everything. There isn't a region in space that experienced a reduction. At best you are pushing refine numbers to what they were in HS, LS and NPC Null, into one place Sov Null where you will at best break even with todays market.

When you take 37% from 100% and only put 8% back that is not net gain, it is a net loss. HS, LS and NPC Null will all refine at a net loss, with Sov Nulls bonus pulling that net loss across all space to 10% instead of the 19% or so it would normally sit at. Unless all refining is done in Sov Null. (highly unlikely).

Less Minerals entering the market.

Reducing minerals from reprocessing by 45% means those people who build on reprocessed minerals now buy from the market.

More mineral demand from the market.

Less Supply + More Demand =/= Maintaining the status quo.

Go ask Mynnna what supply and demand is and how reducing net supply and increasing net demand produces a net reduction in market capacity.