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Isboxer, why is it allowed?

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Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#361 - 2014-03-25 10:02:14 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I cannot wait until, in his endless crusade for social justice and other such stupid things, Divine Entervention decides that having multiple accounts itself should be against the rules.


You must lead a really sad life if you sit around hoping I will and will not do things.

Or maybe I'm just that impressive, that some random stranger on the internet wants to spend his time thinking about me.

If anyone is truly enamored with the idea of me, you may request a picture of me through eve mail. But I will not consider dating you, even though you will want to date me seeing as how I'm incredibly good looking. We can talk, but no dating. Considering the amount of nutjobs this game has, it would be in my best interest to not risk associating with any of you on a personal level.

sorry
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#362 - 2014-03-25 10:04:29 UTC
So nobody is interested in telling me what the difference was?
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#363 - 2014-03-25 10:04:58 UTC
Tippia wrote:
…other than the fact that it's what they refer to when tossing people out of the game for breaking the rules. So it's fairly relevant as far as the separate futures of botters on the one hand and multiboxers on the other hand go.

yes.

Tippia wrote:
Quote:
they do. See fleets of isboxers.
Oh, you mean the ones that don't violate the EULA?

who cares. EULA doesnt make automation less automation, yet it isnt enforced upon them.

Tippia wrote:
Sure we could In fact, we did many times. The sharp and immediate drop in average people online is pretty obvious.

I havent realized any significant drop in 6 years of eve.

Tippia wrote:
No, they don't. All detected bots are banned, and if they happen to use isboxer for some reason, it makes no difference.
isbox is form of bot, yet people dont get banned for it.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#364 - 2014-03-25 10:08:41 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
isbox is form of bot, yet people dont get banned for it.


Its not a botting program, hence why no bans
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#365 - 2014-03-25 10:09:26 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
who cares.
Anyone who's wants to know what is and what isn't allowed.

Quote:
I havent realized any significant drop in 6 years of eve.
Then you haven't been looking.

Quote:
isbox is form of bot, yet people dont get banned for it.
No, it's not. It's just multiboxing software, which is why people don't get banned for it. It only does 1:1 input and does not automate any gameplay, nor does it speed up the acquisition of anything compared to normal gameplay. If you as a player do nothing, it does nothing.

This is why I hinted that maybe you need to learn about what the software actually does, because it's not what you think it is.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#366 - 2014-03-25 10:11:20 UTC
Tippia wrote:
It only does 1:1 input


1:x

X=the number of accounts being controlled
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#367 - 2014-03-25 10:13:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Tippia wrote:
Anyone who's wants to know what is and what isn't allowed.

no, it doesnt clearly say what is and what is not allowed. They say automation is illegal, yet in same time isbox as obvious autoamation tool isnt banned, so vOv. It doesnt really say anything.


Tippia wrote:
No, it's not. It's just multiboxing software, which is why people don't get banned for it. It only does 1:1 input and does not automate any gameplay, nor does it speed up the acquisition of anything compared to normal gameplay. If you as a player do nothing, it does nothing.

it is. you play 1 client and xx bots are running behind you doing same things you do.
Input is distributed not 1:1 but 1:xx, this is why people use it.

Tippia wrote:

This is why I hinted that maybe you need to learn about what the software actually does, because it's not what you think it is.

it is broadcasting mouse events from 1 window to xx others. Technically pretty harmless, but in connection to eve it effectively realizes automated acting characters within eve you dont control directly, which is form of botting.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#368 - 2014-03-25 10:15:05 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
1:x
No. 1:1.
You click once, and it generates exactly the same click. If you do nothing, it does nothing.

At no point does it do anything you don't do. This is why it does not count as automation per the EULA.

The multiplication factor is just many different accounts doing the same thing, which yields the exact same result as if the same amount of accounts did the same thing without the software. This is why it does not accelerate the acquisition of anything compared to normal gameplay.

You can try to twist it any way you like — those are the facts, those are the rules, and those are the reasons the facts don't violate the rules.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#369 - 2014-03-25 10:15:35 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:

it is broadcasting mouse events from 1 window to xx others. Technically pretty harmless, but in connection to eve it effectively realizes automated acting characters within eve you dont control directly, which is form of botting.


Not its not. You still have to directly input orders. A bot is something you click and walk away from.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#370 - 2014-03-25 10:17:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Robert Caldera wrote:
no, it doesnt clearly say what is and what is not allowed.
It says what is and what isn't allowed. If you are confused about some specific, you can ask about it. When asked about multiboxing software, we have been told in no uncertain terms that it does not count as automation per the rules of the EULA.

it doesn't really get any more clear than that: “Q: Does it violate the EULA? A: No.”

Quote:
it is.
What does it do without direct input from the player?

Quote:
it is broadcasting mouse events from 1 window to xx others.
So you understand that it does not generate any input of its own? And if you do, do you also understand that if it doesn't generate any input on its own, it does not qualify as a bot?
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#371 - 2014-03-25 10:19:31 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
1:x
No. 1:1.
You click once, and it generates exactly the same click. If you do nothing, it does nothing.

At no point does it do anything you don't do. This is why it does not count as automation per the EULA.

The multiplication factor is just many different accounts doing the same thing, which yields the exact same result as if the same amount of accounts did the same thing without the software. This is why it does not accelerate the acquisition of anything compared to normal gameplay.

You can try to twist it any way you like — those are the facts, those are the rules, and those are the reasons the facts don't violate the rules.


No, because isboxer clones the keyclick/keystrokes. It clones the keyclick/keystroke for each account it's assigned to control. so if you're controlling 5 accounts, that one keystroke gets cloned four times and applied to each window automatically.

here's an explanation since it seems as though you've done zero research on isboxer:

http://isboxer.com/wiki/Multiboxing#How_multiboxing_works
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#372 - 2014-03-25 10:20:59 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
No, because isboxer clones the keyclick/keystrokes
…but never generates any of its own.
Input = output. 1:1. If the player does nothing, the software does nothing. If the player clicks anything, the software does exactly that, and nothing more.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#373 - 2014-03-25 10:21:07 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
1:x
No. 1:1.
You click once, and it generates exactly the same click. If you do nothing, it does nothing.

no, this isnt, otherwise it wouldnt work.
You click once, and this click is communicated to x other windows by 3rd party tool on its own.
You click once, effectively your click is multiplied by software to xx clicks, which results in
eve ships acting on their own, without you controlling them by yourself.

Tippia wrote:
At no point does it do anything you don't do. This is why it does not count as automation per the EULA.

you dont click all your clients, you arent controllong those 19 background clients hence they shouldnt do anything at all, yet they do because they are under control of isbox.

Tippia wrote:

The multiplication factor is just many different accounts doing the same thing, which yields the exact same result as if the same amount of accounts did the same thing without the software. This is why it does not accelerate the acquisition of anything compared to normal gameplay.

not exact same result. Manual and time shifted control vs. total simultanuous control and reduced input required from user.

Tippia wrote:

You can try to twist it any way you like — those are the facts, those are the rules, and those are the reasons the facts don't violate the rules.

you can try to twist it any way you like, automation is automation regardless what CCP is saying or redefining common terms.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#374 - 2014-03-25 10:22:32 UTC
Just to sum up this thread.

Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't.

Confession! I didn't type all that. I guess I'm a big big cheater for using cut and paste.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#375 - 2014-03-25 10:22:47 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
No, because isboxer clones the keyclick/keystrokes
…but never generates any of its own.
Input = output. 1:1. If the player does nothing, the software does nothing. If the player clicks anything, the software does exactly that, and nothing more.

If the software does nothing, why does it exist?

Tell me, because I don't think you know. What does isboxer do?
Optimo Sebiestor
The New Eden School of trade
Organization of Skill Extracting Corporations
#376 - 2014-03-25 10:24:41 UTC
Isoboxer has and will always be a form for botting. Its automated mouse broadcast to Control multiple Clients as one. The game would be better without it for everyone. CCP is just beeing f4g$ for the Money it brings them. Anyone claiming that iso is ok, is using iso, and having mad advantage over anyone that dont use it. CCP's double standards are appaling..
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#377 - 2014-03-25 10:24:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Tippia wrote:
It says what is and what isn't allowed. If you are confused about some specific, you can ask about it. When asked about multiboxing software, we have been told in no uncertain terms that it does not count as automation per the rules of the EULA.

like I said, EULA is worthless since it doesnt saying anything. You have to ask CCP for specific details, they would probably not and they DID NOT answer in form of isbox. All they do is ignoring and thus implicitely allow them.

Tippia wrote:
What does it do without direct input from the player?

dunno, whatever player directly inputs in his main client, xx background clients do without and direct input from user.

Tippia wrote:
So you understand that it does not generate any input of its own? And if you do, do you also understand that if it doesn't generate any input on its own, it does not qualify as a bot?

broadcasting is multiplying input, multiplying input means copying, copying means generation of something, hence ixbox is copying/generating/multiplying users input on its own.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#378 - 2014-03-25 10:25:17 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
No, because isboxer clones the keyclick/keystrokes
…but never generates any of its own.
Input = output. 1:1. If the player does nothing, the software does nothing. If the player clicks anything, the software does exactly that, and nothing more.

If the software does nothing, why does it exist?

Tell me, because I don't think you know. What does isboxer do?


http://technabob.com/blog/2010/04/11/eve-multi-boxing-rig/

This more or less.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#379 - 2014-03-25 10:25:38 UTC
How about this. Bots are against the EULA. ISBoxer isn't. CPP have spoken. The end.

Now if you don't like it, quit.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#380 - 2014-03-25 10:27:21 UTC
I hope Tippia doesnt respond to the latest semantic argument that ignores the spirit of whats being said in favour of attempting to attack the grammar of it.

For all our sakes.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann