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High sec Mission runners just got completely screwed by CCP

First post First post
Author
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#481 - 2014-03-25 01:15:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Your style of play is now completely unviable.
What play style is that? It certainly can't be missions or any other form of ratting, since the mineral content of loot is such an utterly minute part of it. Nor can it be mining since it is tweaked to remain pretty much the same. So you're obviously not talking about his play style, but rather something completely different.

His play style remains largely untouched. He just has to do a bit more mining and a bit less mission-running for his minerals (which is how it should be).

Quote:
You are faced with at best, 45% of your loot income wiped out.
That just means you can now switch to doing something far more productive and worth-while with your time and actually start earning some proper money. Loot minerals were always fool's gold (and a pretty silly intrusion on mining) and anything that leads people away from it is a good thing

Quote:
You can that the null sec cartels
Who?

Quote:
as they strike another blow for the "little guy".
How does this in any way affect the “little guy” and what makes you think that there are any plans or any goal to strike a blow against them? And who's interested in doing that anyway?
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#482 - 2014-03-25 01:22:34 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
and now, the mighty ISD Ezwal shall slumber.
i still don't think its that big of a deal. really.


Yeah, gotta give him a round of applause on that. 30 pages... Good Lord.


Why?


Because it took him a hell of a while to do it? Considering these guys don't get paid, yeah, that deserves some big props.


Sorry, we are not allowed to discuss moderation, or I would have some very choice words about the intent of this moderation.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#483 - 2014-03-25 01:24:18 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Sorry, we are not allowed to discuss moderation, or I would have some very choice words about the intent of this moderation.

Such as “bravo”, “it really needed a clean-up”, and “long time coming”?
Marsha Mallow
#484 - 2014-03-25 01:26:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Marsha Mallow
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Why?

Because it's a tough job shuffling about with a mop and bucket, watching the drivileged talk **** and smear it upon everything they touch.
I deliberately took a cleaning job as a teenager and earned my Scrubber certificate (and badge). Have to say the lower orders were unanimous in agreeing that the overlords should spend at least a year scrubbing toilets, preferably with someone (not their parents) shouting abuse behind them.

Having said that, I for one quite enjoy an Ezwal scrubbing. HANDS UP, ISDS INCOMING etc

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#485 - 2014-03-25 01:32:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Sorry, we are not allowed to discuss moderation, or I would have some very choice words about the intent of this moderation.


How very odd. Considering what an issue you have with the rumor mongering rule, I would have felt you'd have no issue with "choice words".

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#486 - 2014-03-25 01:44:31 UTC
All those posts lost, like trash in space.

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them

Sirikar Nakasoroki
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#487 - 2014-03-25 02:16:48 UTC
Love the logic behind all this..

People don't use current compression methods such as rorqual to transport minerals..CCP's fault.

solution nerf refine on modules to prevent a certain part of the player base using a module in the way its not intended, in this case using modules to compress minerals.

At the same time cut mission runners loot refines by 45% as a knock on effect should they collect the loot, knock on effect will probably be more mission blitzing and possibly a increase in price on salvage materials considering if people won't bother looting in missions they probably won't bother salvaging either, be interesting to see the numbers on how much salvage materials come from high sec mission loot.

instead why not just fix the compression problem with the rorqual and null sec stations, the reprocessing change is not even needed.



Mario Putzo
#488 - 2014-03-25 02:38:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
wrong thread remove pls
Muestereate
Minions LLC
#489 - 2014-03-25 02:46:18 UTC
You had your chance, the ax man's sleeping
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#490 - 2014-03-25 03:25:43 UTC
Sirikar Nakasoroki wrote:
Love the logic behind all this..

People don't use current compression methods such as rorqual to transport minerals..CCP's fault.

solution nerf refine on modules to prevent a certain part of the player base using a module in the way its not intended, in this case using modules to compress minerals.

At the same time cut mission runners loot refines by 45% as a knock on effect should they collect the loot, knock on effect will probably be more mission blitzing and possibly a increase in price on salvage materials considering if people won't bother looting in missions they probably won't bother salvaging either, be interesting to see the numbers on how much salvage materials come from high sec mission loot.

instead why not just fix the compression problem with the rorqual and null sec stations, the reprocessing change is not even needed.





Except this isn't the only problem. The other one being fixed is the fact that levels4-5 of all Resource Processing skills are marginally useful.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#491 - 2014-03-25 03:32:16 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Quote:
You are faced with at best, 45% of your loot income wiped out.
That just means you can now switch to doing something far more productive and worth-while with your time and actually start earning some proper money. Loot minerals were always fool's gold (and a pretty silly intrusion on mining) and anything that leads people away from it is a good thing


Let me see if I've got this straight...

So this style of game play, reprocessing these assets to resources - which you state is LESS INCOME - takes a hit and this is good?

A large portion of mission runners have been using this reprocessing as a source of income - you state it's a poor source of income. This change will remove it as viable to many... That converts play to clear and blitz styles for pure faucet income.

How is pushing people to stop relying on lesser income sources in highsec over to cookie-cutter, faucet income a good thing for *ANYONE* in the game?

I always assumed more focus on wealth transfer and sinks vs faucet income was a good thing. Silly me.

Yes let's force players to stop wasting their time paying processing and sales fees vs just getting at those bounties and mission payouts! It'll be the best thing for the economy!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#492 - 2014-03-25 03:48:53 UTC
Mocam wrote:
Tippia wrote:

Quote:
You are faced with at best, 45% of your loot income wiped out.
That just means you can now switch to doing something far more productive and worth-while with your time and actually start earning some proper money. Loot minerals were always fool's gold (and a pretty silly intrusion on mining) and anything that leads people away from it is a good thing


Let me see if I've got this straight...

So this style of game play, reprocessing these assets to resources - which you state is LESS INCOME - takes a hit and this is good?

A large portion of mission runners have been using this reprocessing as a source of income - you state it's a poor source of income. This change will remove it as viable to many... That converts play to clear and blitz styles for pure faucet income.

How is pushing people to stop relying on lesser income sources in highsec over to cookie-cutter, faucet income a good thing for *ANYONE* in the game?

I always assumed more focus on wealth transfer and sinks vs faucet income was a good thing. Silly me.

Yes let's force players to stop wasting their time paying processing and sales fees vs just getting at those bounties and mission payouts! It'll be the best thing for the economy!


Ah, E-Uni posting hasn't changed, it seems.

Firstly, yes, it's a good thing. In fact it's a great thing, because the easy availablity of minerals from loot drops with minimal refining skills pushed out plenty of legit uses for the skill, and in fact made it rather pointless to level up the Refining set of skills up.

Secondly, a tiny minority of people mission precisely this wrong way. They'll be happier just making more money.

Thirdly, yes, this will push them to LP sources of income instead of mineral sources. That is also a good thing, mineral inflation is a bad thing, especially when it just pops up from killing NPCs. That's why they nerfed drone mineral drops, too. This is just an extension of that same policy.

Fourth, it's a good thing for almost everyone, as it helps diversify the industrial landscape. Refining will actually become a thing now.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#493 - 2014-03-25 06:02:58 UTC
ISD Ezwal wrote:

Ezwal walks outside for a much needed break and a smoke, gazes at the stars....relaxes.....ah the tranquillity.....

Lol

21 pages deleted from 45 Shocked.

That break is well deserved Blink.

Remove standings and insurance.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#494 - 2014-03-25 06:07:47 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
ISD Ezwal wrote:

Ezwal walks outside for a much needed break and a smoke, gazes at the stars....relaxes.....ah the tranquillity.....

Lol

21 pages deleted from 45 Shocked.

That break is well deserved Blink.


45? It was well over 50 when he locked it, I thought?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#495 - 2014-03-25 06:24:26 UTC
Mocam wrote:
So this style of game play, reprocessing these assets to resources - which you state is LESS INCOME - takes a hit and this is good?
Yes. It's a marginal reduction in income and a strong move in the direction away from gun mining. It's a very good thing.

Quote:
A large portion of mission runners have been using this reprocessing as a source of income - you state it's a poor source of income. This change will remove it as viable to many... That converts play to clear and blitz styles for pure faucet income.
Actually, there's still almost as much reason as before to pick up the loot since, you know, there might be valuable loot there, as well as ye olde salvage, which doesn't change. Moreover, blitz style is far more of a sink income than a faucet one so if that becomes more popular, it is also a very good thing.

Quote:
I always assumed more focus on wealth transfer and sinks vs faucet income was a good thing.
…and this change hardly affects that at all since the portion of mission income that comes from trash loot reprocessing is pretty darn small.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
21 pages deleted from 45 Shocked.

That break is well deserved Blink.
45? It was well over 50 when he locked it, I thought?

Closing in on 60, but it was already in the process of losing pages while doing so and had lost some before that. EVE Search reports the equivalent of 68 pages, and I know for a fact that it managed to miss a few posts. P
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#496 - 2014-03-25 06:27:28 UTC
Mocam wrote:
Tippia wrote:

Quote:
You are faced with at best, 45% of your loot income wiped out.
That just means you can now switch to doing something far more productive and worth-while with your time and actually start earning some proper money. Loot minerals were always fool's gold (and a pretty silly intrusion on mining) and anything that leads people away from it is a good thing


Let me see if I've got this straight...

So this style of game play, reprocessing these assets to resources - which you state is LESS INCOME - takes a hit and this is good?

A large portion of mission runners have been using this reprocessing as a source of income - you state it's a poor source of income. This change will remove it as viable to many... That converts play to clear and blitz styles for pure faucet income.

How is pushing people to stop relying on lesser income sources in highsec over to cookie-cutter, faucet income a good thing for *ANYONE* in the game?

I always assumed more focus on wealth transfer and sinks vs faucet income was a good thing. Silly me.

Yes let's force players to stop wasting their time paying processing and sales fees vs just getting at those bounties and mission payouts! It'll be the best thing for the economy!


I was in the UNI a long tme.
I know how many new players use mission loot as a major source of their income.
I know how many times new players would trail along behind an older player who mas generous enough not to loot their site.
I also know how many of those new players have not particularly great refining skills, but will certainly mine to make some coin. I used to help out with mining ops with new players. UNIstas would show up in a belt and go nuts.

These players all just got killed in their income.
There are a 1000 of them in the UNI.

ALL those new players just got creamed.
It does not matter how CCP and the null sec cartels spin it, those new players are all faced with a huge drop in their income.
Yet this is supposed to improve the new player experience.....right.

Once again, CCP proves it hates the largest segment of its own subscription base.
And the null sec cartels just point, giggle, and buy more vaults to hold ever bigger piles of ISK.
Mario Putzo
#497 - 2014-03-25 06:28:01 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
ISD Ezwal wrote:

Ezwal walks outside for a much needed break and a smoke, gazes at the stars....relaxes.....ah the tranquillity.....

Lol

21 pages deleted from 45 Shocked.

That break is well deserved Blink.


45? It was well over 50 when he locked it, I thought?


Initially it was over 60 when it got locked, was scaled back to 50 or so then gutted as the day went on.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#498 - 2014-03-25 06:29:31 UTC
Mocam wrote:
Tippia wrote:

Quote:
You are faced with at best, 45% of your loot income wiped out.
That just means you can now switch to doing something far more productive and worth-while with your time and actually start earning some proper money. Loot minerals were always fool's gold (and a pretty silly intrusion on mining) and anything that leads people away from it is a good thing


Let me see if I've got this straight...

So this style of game play, reprocessing these assets to resources - which you state is LESS INCOME - takes a hit and this is good?

A large portion of mission runners have been using this reprocessing as a source of income - you state it's a poor source of income. This change will remove it as viable to many... That converts play to clear and blitz styles for pure faucet income.

How is pushing people to stop relying on lesser income sources in highsec over to cookie-cutter, faucet income a good thing for *ANYONE* in the game?

I always assumed more focus on wealth transfer and sinks vs faucet income was a good thing. Silly me.

Yes let's force players to stop wasting their time paying processing and sales fees vs just getting at those bounties and mission payouts! It'll be the best thing for the economy!

bugger reprocessing mission loot, the only reason people reprocess the terrible mods they get from missions is because the mods themselves are worthless. that's something that also needs to change and probably will soon, making the mods more valuable, hopefully. these things being more useful as scrap is a broken part of the game

also i imagine blitzing for lp means less isk is entering the game, not more, since most mission isk is from bounties and lp stores are an isk sink

finally even if there was a slight increase in inflation it doesn't mean a bad part of the game shouldn't be fixed, there are other ways to control money and there are more changes on the way (let's hope npc stations start charging more to manufacture, eh?)
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#499 - 2014-03-25 06:34:24 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
ALL those new players just got creamed.

hot

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Lol

21 pages deleted from 45 Shocked.

That break is well deserved Blink.


45? It was well over 50 when he locked it, I thought?

When i saw he was going to clean the thread I reported his post saying 'you'll need to sweep 30 pages off, not even Hercules could clean this'.

Hercules was merely a demigod, Ezwal is ISD
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#500 - 2014-03-25 06:39:56 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I was in the UNI a long tme.
I know how many new players use mission loot as a major source of their income.
I know how many times new players would trail along behind an older player who mas generous enough not to loot their site.
I also know how many of those new players have not particularly great refining skills, but will certainly mine to make some coin. I used to help out with mining ops with new players. UNIstas would show up in a belt and go nuts.

These players all just got killed in their income.
No, all those players just got a reason to learn how to make a good income rather than a horrid one. If they actually adapt to the new changes, their income will shoot up.

Quote:
It does not matter how CCP and the null sec cartels
Who?

Quote:
those new players are all faced with a huge drop in their income.
No, it's not a particularly huge drop since minerals stopped being a big portion of what you get a long time ago. Everything that actually earns them money — high-value loot, salvage, pure ISK rewards, bounties, and LP — is still there. The fact that they didn't have great refining skills or standings means they never got a lot of minerals out of the little loot as it was; this change only reduces that already very small source.

Quote:
Yet this is supposed to improve the new player experience.
Says who?
This is supposed to remove a downright idiotic mechanism that nullifies choice, makes entire skills pointless, offers no incentive to move beyond NPC services, devalues mining, and muddies the water for industrialists, and at the same time, it creates a new career path (mainly in highsec). It also removes the need for the fugly extra-materials kluge whenever manufactured items get rebalanced and it sets a proper stage for future module metacide efforts.

It thereby improves the game for pretty much everyone.