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What ship to use for missions?
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dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-03-23 21:14:13 UTC
Damien White wrote:
Just as long as you dont factor in E-War.

The Navy Raven has the better ship bonus for damage projection but the navy scorp can fit at least 2 extra electronic warfare modules compared to the navy raven and still have the same tank and DPS.


Staying out of serpentis and guristas space also solves the ewar problem...

Generally speaking i don't think it's worth it to factor in e-war, because it's only relevant in very few missions. You primary mission boat should be focused on maximizing dps, with just enough cap and tank to complete the mission, anything else is 9 out of 10 times just wasted resources.

When flying T1 ships i find it the most efficient to have more then one ship, there are missions where you need better tank or need to be more resilient to ewar, and having that ship ready in the hanger is just the easiest for me.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#22 - 2014-03-24 03:31:20 UTC
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
The navy scorpion should be your first goal for real isk per hour doing L4's.

Do what ever you got to in the mean time to make that happen.


sry i dont think so, raven and scorp navy do same paper dps but raven navy puts it to better use.
Tengu might be a good mission blitzer choice but with a proper raven navy (ok t2 cm) i can equal the isk/h rate with not blitzing in most cases.


Even if you could why would you?

Pros to blitz
-quicker missions means less time for someone to scan and f with you
-easier and quicker sells + lighter shipping loads
-more story line missions which often give 25m for 30 seconds work
-lower skill cap required
-lower ammo costs
-easier to afk as 50% of your time is spent in warp
-cheaper ship

Cons to blitz
-requires 5.0+ faction standings to really profit
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2014-03-24 08:13:08 UTC
Damien White wrote:
Just as long as you dont factor in E-War.

The Navy Raven has the better ship bonus for damage projection but the navy scorp can fit at least 2 extra electronic warfare modules compared to the navy raven and still have the same tank and DPS.


u r right that i could squeeze 2 more ewar into a navy scorp but i dont need them and my damage application is far superior to a scorp.

[Raven Navy Issue, mission]

8x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Scourge Fury Cruise Missile)

Large Micro Jump Drive
X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II
2x Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Heavy Capacitor Booster II (Cap Booster 800)

Internal Force Field Array I
3x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Signal Amplifier II

2x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II

5x Hammerhead II
1x Hammerhead II
5x Hobgoblin II
3x Hobgoblin II


Organic Lager wrote:

Even if you could why would you?

Pros to blitz
-quicker missions means less time for someone to scan and f with you
-easier and quicker sells + lighter shipping loads
-more story line missions which often give 25m for 30 seconds work
-lower skill cap required
-lower ammo costs
-easier to afk as 50% of your time is spent in warp
-cheaper ship

Cons to blitz
-requires 5.0+ faction standings to really profit

-quicker mission times means less chance yes, but i never had much problems with ppl scanning me down and landing on me
-that i dont get what u wanna tell me
-mostly not interested in storyline because of faction penalties
-less skills needed? not so sure
-correct
-if u afk log off
-tengu, raven navy last time i checked (ok some time ago) they cost around the same

but basically its a decision to make for every player how he wants to play
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#24 - 2014-03-24 15:03:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Organic Lager
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:

[Raven Navy Issue, mission]

8x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Scourge Fury Cruise Missile)

Large Micro Jump Drive
X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II
2x Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Heavy Capacitor Booster II (Cap Booster 800)

Internal Force Field Array I
3x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Signal Amplifier II

2x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II

5x Hammerhead II
1x Hammerhead II
5x Hobgoblin II
3x Hobgoblin II


Organic Lager wrote:

Even if you could why would you?

Pros to blitz
-quicker missions means less time for someone to scan and f with you
-easier and quicker sells + lighter shipping loads
-more story line missions which often give 25m for 30 seconds work
-lower skill cap required
-lower ammo costs
-easier to afk as 50% of your time is spent in warp
-cheaper ship

Cons to blitz
-requires 5.0+ faction standings to really profit

-quicker mission times means less chance yes, but i never had much problems with ppl scanning me down and landing on me
-that i dont get what u wanna tell me
-mostly not interested in storyline because of faction penalties
-less skills needed? not so sure
-correct
-if u afk log off
-tengu, raven navy last time i checked (ok some time ago) they cost around the same

but basically its a decision to make for every player how he wants to play


What i mean by cheaper and easier sells is instead of selling the 500 different items that you've looted from your full clears you only need to sell 1 type from your lp rewards. This saves hours of right clicking and selling items, it also allows you to keep a better eye on the market to get the most buck for your item since you are only focused on 1.

As long as you run for sisters faction standings don't really change. Amarr takes a minor hit and gallente gets a large increase but honestly i've done probably 30+ story missions since i started blitzing and my amarr hasn't even dropped 1 whole point yet. On the other hand the very negative gallente standings i started with is almost 5.0 now so i can do the epic arc.

It's far easier to fit and fly a tengu (cruiser) then a navy raven (battleship)

Tengu is far cheaper then the rni. A fully fit 100m/hour blitz tengu is 600-700m. The rni hull alone is 550m, add in navy bcus, tech 2 rigs and it's at least 50% more expensive.

Also i assume you are counting running with a salvage alt as i don't see how else you can make that money with full clears in an rni. Blitzing does not require an alt at all since you aren't going for loot or salvage.

Edit: also with the proposed refining changes coming this summer it looks like high sec loot is going to take a hit. This will lower full clear isk/hour numbers while leaving blitzers relatively untouched.
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2014-03-24 17:04:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Organic Lager wrote:


What i mean by cheaper and easier sells is instead of selling the 500 different items that you've looted from your full clears you only need to sell 1 type from your lp rewards. This saves hours of right clicking and selling items, it also allows you to keep a better eye on the market to get the most buck for your item since you are only focused on 1.

As long as you run for sisters faction standings don't really change. Amarr takes a minor hit and gallente gets a large increase but honestly i've done probably 30+ story missions since i started blitzing and my amarr hasn't even dropped 1 whole point yet. On the other hand the very negative gallente standings i started with is almost 5.0 now so i can do the epic arc.

It's far easier to fit and fly a tengu (cruiser) then a navy raven (battleship)

Tengu is far cheaper then the rni. A fully fit 100m/hour blitz tengu is 600-700m. The rni hull alone is 550m, add in navy bcus, tech 2 rigs and it's at least 50% more expensive.

Also i assume you are counting running with a salvage alt as i don't see how else you can make that money with full clears in an rni. Blitzing does not require an alt at all since you aren't going for loot or salvage.

Edit: also with the proposed refining changes coming this summer it looks like high sec loot is going to take a hit. This will lower full clear isk/hour numbers while leaving blitzers relatively untouched.


i didnt loot and salvage, i do around 2 missions an hour with complete cleaning them. My average bounty tick was 15M so i made 45M an hour + 16k lp + 5 to 6M Rewards. I assume your 100M/h is for SOE that would make for lp what 2.5k isk per lp? so i think u win out that way. I always did let a newbie salvage and loot after me when i did find one.

Tengu Hull with all subsys has gotten alot cheaper since i last compared prices ^^.

Skills i see where u come from as the fit i use is top end. But im not so sure that there is a big difference. it might be side railing but what skills do u need for raven that u dont need for tengu (Cald BC 3, Cald BS, CM instead of HAM are the only ones i can think of).

To your edit im interested in how that will effect meta 0 to meta 4 prices.
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#26 - 2014-03-24 17:46:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Organic Lager
Deleted stupid iphone
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#27 - 2014-03-24 17:49:40 UTC
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:


What i mean by cheaper and easier sells is instead of selling the 500 different items that you've looted from your full clears you only need to sell 1 type from your lp rewards. This saves hours of right clicking and selling items, it also allows you to keep a better eye on the market to get the most buck for your item since you are only focused on 1.

As long as you run for sisters faction standings don't really change. Amarr takes a minor hit and gallente gets a large increase but honestly i've done probably 30+ story missions since i started blitzing and my amarr hasn't even dropped 1 whole point yet. On the other hand the very negative gallente standings i started with is almost 5.0 now so i can do the epic arc.

It's far easier to fit and fly a tengu (cruiser) then a navy raven (battleship)

Tengu is far cheaper then the rni. A fully fit 100m/hour blitz tengu is 600-700m. The rni hull alone is 550m, add in navy bcus, tech 2 rigs and it's at least 50% more expensive.

Also i assume you are counting running with a salvage alt as i don't see how else you can make that money with full clears in an rni. Blitzing does not require an alt at all since you aren't going for loot or salvage.

Edit: also with the proposed refining changes coming this summer it looks like high sec loot is going to take a hit. This will lower full clear isk/hour numbers while leaving blitzers relatively untouched.


i didnt loot and salvage, i do around 2 missions an hour with complete cleaning them. My average bounty tick was 15M so i made 45M an hour + 16k lp + 5 to 6M Rewards. I assume your 100M/h is for SOE that would make for lp what 2.5k isk per lp? so i think u win out that way. I always did let a newbie salvage and loot after me when i did find one.

Tengu Hull with all subsys has gotten alot cheaper since i last compared prices ^^.

Skills i see where u come from as the fit i use is top end. But im not so sure that there is a big difference. it might be side railing but what skills do u need for raven that u dont need for tengu (Cald BC 3, Cald BS, CM instead of HAM are the only ones i can think of).

To your edit im interested in how that will effect meta 0 to meta 4 prices.


I do all my calculations based on 1800isk per SoE LP as that is the instant sell value. I do get over 2k but it often requires waiting a day or two to sell.

Are you cherry picking missions to always get blockade or angels to sustain those 15m ticks? I imagine some missions would really crush your bounty ticks. Either way blitzing is generating quite a bit more along with all the other pros.

Cald BS is an 8x skills and very beneficial to operating a raven. Tengu sub systems are much easier to train 2x? And most are not required to be efficient while blitzing. The other big skill for raven that tengu doesn't have are the drones. missile support skills are far more important on cruise missiles then on HAMs for damage application.

Meta 1-4 are mostly sold to be refined with the exception of some meta 4 mods. Mining will produce greater yields to offset the fewer minerals coming in from refining. This means mineral prices will stay about the same while the amount of minerals refined from an item will be reduced 20-30%, thus expect a 20-30% drop in the price of all loots.
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#28 - 2014-03-24 19:13:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Vinyl 41
i would go with a cheap ass mjd raven and a noctis especialy when your planning on doing sister l4 missions tengu is asking for getting attention of those very common gang fleets we have in those areas :/
as for WH life just skill planetary interactions and join some c2-c3 corp for that solid passive income ;]
after checking your skills i think you should skill planets and join some c2 corp for that nice passive income and the easy peasy sites you can run with your maxed drake
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2014-03-24 19:51:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Organic Lager wrote:

I do all my calculations based on 1800isk per SoE LP as that is the instant sell value. I do get over 2k but it often requires waiting a day or two to sell.

Are you cherry picking missions to always get blockade or angels to sustain those 15m ticks? I imagine some missions would really crush your bounty ticks. Either way blitzing is generating quite a bit more along with all the other pros.

Cald BS is an 8x skills and very beneficial to operating a raven. Tengu sub systems are much easier to train 2x? And most are not required to be efficient while blitzing. The other big skill for raven that tengu doesn't have are the drones. missile support skills are far more important on cruise missiles then on HAMs for damage application.

Meta 1-4 are mostly sold to be refined with the exception of some meta 4 mods. Mining will produce greater yields to offset the fewer minerals coming in from refining. This means mineral prices will stay about the same while the amount of minerals refined from an item will be reduced 20-30%, thus expect a 20-30% drop in the price of all loots.


we r derailing abit here but no i took all the missions the agent did dish out to me. 12M is the lowest tick i got with said raven but i did rly average 15M. But i get your point, but i did some comparison personally as i can use a tengu and a raven and i found it more efficient for me to clear the sites but maybe i wasnt efficient enough with an all l5 tengu (playstyle and all).

as for the meta 0-2 i assume that they will fall in prices, meta 3 and 4 should mostly be stable as they r the ones used either when u miss skills or grid.

EDIT: Op i havent checked everything but your missile support skills need work
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-03-24 19:59:39 UTC
dexington wrote:
Damien White wrote:
Just as long as you dont factor in E-War.

The Navy Raven has the better ship bonus for damage projection but the navy scorp can fit at least 2 extra electronic warfare modules compared to the navy raven and still have the same tank and DPS.


Staying out of serpentis and guristas space also solves the ewar problem...

Generally speaking i don't think it's worth it to factor in e-war, because it's only relevant in very few missions. You primary mission boat should be focused on maximizing dps, with just enough cap and tank to complete the mission, anything else is 9 out of 10 times just wasted resources.

When flying T1 ships i find it the most efficient to have more then one ship, there are missions where you need better tank or need to be more resilient to ewar, and having that ship ready in the hanger is just the easiest for me.


You know, Target Painters as well as Stasis webifiers count as E-War as well.

But yes, you can go for 2 TP, a ECCM Module and a Stasis Webifier and still have sufficient tank for any L4 Mission out there. Or you go for a Omnidirectional Tracking Link, a sensor Booster, some additional propulsion module or even a third Target Painter, its all up to you.

But the fact is, the Bonus from the Navy Raven only becomes important once you go for Torps, otherwise it is wasted and falls behind the capabilitys of the navy scorp.

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-03-24 20:09:49 UTC  |  Edited by: dexington
I thought you were talking about enemy e-war, and wanted to fit eccm to avoid jamming.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2014-03-24 20:41:37 UTC
Damien White wrote:

You know, Target Painters as well as Stasis webifiers count as E-War as well.

But yes, you can go for 2 TP, a ECCM Module and a Stasis Webifier and still have sufficient tank for any L4 Mission out there. Or you go for a Omnidirectional Tracking Link, a sensor Booster, some additional propulsion module or even a third Target Painter, its all up to you.

But the fact is, the Bonus from the Navy Raven only becomes important once you go for Torps, otherwise it is wasted and falls behind the capabilitys of the navy scorp.


rly wasted that fit one shots cruiser upwards. stasis webs are only needed below 14km but as u r mostly farther out with a mjd fit that wont be needed in my experience. Sebo yes, eccm same way also that i havent seen a difference between getting jammed with and without but last time i tried is 2 years ago i believe so there might have been a change. That is one more mid compared to alot better damage application. But if i would want to brick tank because i fear ganks i would go scorp navy too. I tested both and for me the raven wins, if for u the scorpion wins then by all means use it. The op asked what ship to use for his mission. So he will see why i choose the raven navy u did the navy scorp and others did the tengu.
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#33 - 2014-03-24 20:49:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Damien White
The navy Scorp has 2 extra Mid slotts because you dont need as many tank modules as the Navy Raven.

The Stasis Webifier as well as the Omnidirectional Tracking Link would not be used to increase your missile DPS directly but rather to boost your drones.


As I have writen in the other thread, the only two situations where the bonus of the navy raven becomes important is either against very small and fast targets like spider drones or while using weapons with incredible large explosion radius like torpedos.

Everything else gets basicaly the same damage from both ships, both ships use the same ammount of missiles to kill an NPC and both ships can snipe by using MJD.

Both, the range bonus as well as the bonus to explosion radius mark the navy raven as a torp ship, whereby the navy scorp still is the E-war powerhouse (but not ECM like the normal one)


@ dexxington: Well, you can fitt ECCM, you have the slotts to do so without either crippling your damage or tank.

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"
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