EVE General Discussion

Beneficiaries of the change are:
-Null entities capable of financing the refinery efficiency installations
-Null sec entitites with renters who now have some degree of added incentive to mine, refine and provide resources to null domestically.
-Those renters, to some degree, depending on how sov owners adjust their rent, access to facilities, protection and possivle incenrive programs to ensure a greater flow of minerals from null domestically.
-POS owners with compression capability throughout the universe.
-Null sec entitites with the infrastructure to manufacture and sell products both to high sec markets, and also some null markets.

Those who stand to lose from the changes are::
-Reprossecors.
-Mission/rat/plex runners
-Entities currently dependant on what mission/rat/plex runners bring in.
-High sec industrialists who now have to compete with null industrialists who have a wider margin owing to the better refinement efficiency in their native space
-Miners without personal access to advanced refining facilities, in high sec as their raw output will be suppressed by the margins of compression services, in null sec because you will have to pay for the privilege as rent, which suppresses your profits.

You can by all means add your points to the lists, but none of them disprove any of the existing items on the list.
The list was by no means "complete", but the items on it, are not incorrect.

I don't have a null bias. Infact I am actively and constantly looking for opportunity to involve myself in null.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

This is how it will pan out.

Null buys or mines high-sec ice/ore, either raw or compressed, or compresses it themselves.

This is brought back to null for refining at 20% yield above that of what any high-sec industrialist can extract from the equivalent amount of ore/ice.

The transport costs of this compressed ice/ore do not exceed that of what was the cost previously of 425mm, and is in all ways more efficient.

Null manufactures from this, to the result of a "surplus" volume of product that is greater than any high-sec industrialist can produce from the same amount of initial investment in ice/ore, because they refine MORE minerals out of that same amount of ice/ore (bought at the same price as high-sec industrialists are buying it).

This larger amount of final product derived from the same initial investment in ice/ore, as compared to a highsec industrialist who is buying the same ice/ore for the same price but getting LESS minerals out of it, is then shipped back upstream and put to market in high-sec. Due to the larger amount of final product the null-industrialist got from the same initial investment in the ice/ore required to manufacture it, they subsequently get more profit from total sales, and also have a bit of leverage for price controlling.

This is ALL FINE.

I have no problem with any of this. Null should be a more lucrative manufacturing and refining base than high-sec is.

But this is how it will play out. The same has already been corroborated by posts from Goon industrialists.

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THIS, but make no mistake, this will be the result of these changes.

This change has been a long time coming. Its a buff to more or less everyone but people refining their loot, which has always been a horrible injustice for the industrial guys and has needed nerfing since forever.

I whine about CCPs choices fairly regularly, but they're doing a good thing here by everyone.

That's not really ironic, so much as a problem that was in dire need of fixing.

I tried to read the devblog, but i got completly lost :-/ Im affraid of what this change wil mean for my new alt. Its a industry/mission alt. My gameplay on that alt use alot of reprossesing, due to the fact that i build everything i need for mission/mining. When i unlock lev4 missions, i wil buy a bpc for a mission battleship. Mine all the minerals i need to build it, and reprosess loot from lev3 missions to get the minerals i cant mine in highsec. I have done this from day 1 on this alt grinding rocks for a retriver with the tiny venture, building cruiser and battlecruiser for lev 2/3 missions. Its already hard as f... doing all this. And now ccp wil make it even harder??

Thanks to MTU's and salvage drones, I still loot most of my missions because my industry alt makes rigs and ammo, and I will continue to do so. I can't say I'm happy about this change, but it probably is currently too easy to get perfect refine and scrap processing without max skills. I guess if fewer people are looting and salvaging after this change, I'll be able to sell my stuff for more, so it will probably balance out or close to it in the end.

Thorough cleaning complete. If you think I missed something, please feel free to report the post in question.

I have removed a lot of rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The rules:
2. Be respectful toward others at all times.

The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.

3. Ranting is prohibited.

A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.

4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

7. Use of profanity is prohibited.

The use of profanity is prohibited on the EVE Online forums. This includes the partial masking of letters using numbers or alternate symbols, and any attempts at bypassing the profanity filter.

11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.

The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category.

12. Spamming is prohibited.

Spam is defined as the repetitive posting of the same topic or nonsensical post that has no substance and is often designed to annoy other forum users. This can include the words “first”, “go back to (insert other game name)” and other such posts that contribute no value to forum discussion. Spamming also includes the posting of ASCII art within a forum post.

13. Pyramid quoting is prohibited.

Pyramid quoting is a response to a forum thread that contains the quotes of four or more previous posters, sometimes with additional spaces added unnecessarily. This kind of posting often distorts the layout of the forums and can cause issues with readability for some users.

22. Post constructively.

Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.

26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.

29. Posts that distort the forum layout are prohibited.

Posts that are deliberately designed to distort the layout of the EVE Online forums, or character names that are of an inappropriate length and stretch the forums will be removed. This kind of behavior is deemed as being in opposition to the community spirit that CCP would like to promote, and posts of this nature will be deleted. Users who engage in this type of behavior may face temporary suspension or permanent revocation of their forum posting privileges.

31. Rumor mongering is prohibited.

Rumor threads and posts which are based off no actual solid information and are designed to either troll or annoy other users will be locked and removed. These kinds of threads and posts are detrimental to the well being and spirit of the EVE Online Community, and can create undue panic among forum users, as well as adding to the workload of our moderators.

30. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.

CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, “outing” of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties.
Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts.

Thread re-opened.

Yeah, gotta give him a round of applause on that. 30 pages... Good Lord.

Why?