Market Discussions

For the biggest amount of players low-sec allways has been nothing more then a 'need to pass' space .


The chance of that changing is something i have given up hoping for years ago.To say it boldly , i expect a pos revamp before that happends .

It's contained but there should not be an arrow at a side of it pointing to The Right Direction.

Sadly all of these issues come from an original design that assumed creating an "high sec" area with NPCs was a good idea and now it's too late to steer EvE away from it.

Also, imo the riskiest EvE areas are in WHs and FW low sec and some places in NPC null sec.

That's where refining should yield the most. Reward measured on constant risk.

Myanna, I think people are going about the way they perceive lowsec to be wrong. Because you cannot own and control the stations, and because you cannot use null sec tools, (bubbles etc), you will never safely be able to run mining operations etc etc. Npc null sec, is good, because of the ability to run missions via there particular factions that are very profitable, and because the npc stations are not conquerable it allows everyone to participate, but gives groups more controll over the space, via use of bubbles etc.

So make null sec npc very very close to null sec as far as manufacturing goes, move some low sec systems over to npc 0.0 space, and some null sec space to low sec, Then with low sec, turn it into exploring/plexing/some other unique introduced way of making money mechanism.
Actually make low sec a viable place to go, keep the no bubbles, etc etc mechanics, but buff the bejeesus out of it with anoms/sites etc. You could even introduce low lvl anoms to run, like ports etc found in low sec 0.0 space. You cannot realistically do anything to low sec and by proxy npc null sec, that would make it viable to run mining/building operations that u can in high sec/non npc null sec.

So the landscape would like this
*null sec - controllable space, upgradable industry and anoms etc, mining etc, med-high sites
*null sec npc - non controllable, high value npc missions, non upgradeable anoms, null sec mechanics (bubbles, titan dd's etc), med-high value sites, mining as is
*low sec - med value sites depending on sec status, + more sites available . med value missions, non upgradable anoms, mining staying as is.
*high sec - non controllable, no nullsec/low sec mechanics, low value sites, low value missions, mining etc to stay as is, no anoms.

Low sec should be the most, traveled and pvp'd in space, considering the bulk of players are in high sec, and low sec is so easily avail to high sec traverlers. making the space med reward, and giving it anoms to run would also stop people having to rent space form the big 3 in 0.0, corps could set up in low sec stations, etc etc.

CCP should stop trying to make every different type of space the same, and instead concentrate on making them different in aspects, that allow the proper risk reward ratios. Low sec is the bastion of fair footed fighting, you cannot control the space, you cannot control the station (eg via constant bubbling etc etc), and because of its abundance in systems, and its proximty to the untapped high sec, it has the abilty to generate ample conflict if the rewards are there, not this fly a stabbed frigate in a plex bullshit fw stuff, but decent hands on anoms/sites etc.

CCP could easily design unique and lowsec only sites and anoms, that are not avail in any other region, that would draw the 0.0, 0.0 null sec and high sec dwellers to fight, they have the framework in place, the ability to make thses sites and anoms etc, they just need to step back, take a big look at it, then roll there sleeves up and get into it. The expansions of late are tired, dont actually add a great deal to anything, and are not focused enough in a particular area to actually make me want to do something else in eve.

They have a unique opportunity in there ability for lowsec to be the nexus, or the glue holding all the different types of space together, its about time they actually stop pussy footing around it and do something about it.


SO IN SUMMARY....................... BUFF LOWSEC

one crazy experiment with spreadsheet:

locations: Jita (Forge); Jan (Lonetrek); V0DF-2 (Tribute)

ship: Anshar (pilot with perfect skills)

idea: buy compressed pyroxeres in Jita, jump to V0DF-2, refine (that system already has minmatar outpost) perfectly, fill anshar with minerals, jump to Jan, fly 5 jumps to jita and sell minerals there. all calculations were made aprox assuming that:

trit - 5 isk, pr - 12.6, mex - 49, nox - 730

you can buy 1 unit compresed pyro at price of perfect highsec station refine (mineral price) - 2830756,161 isk

you will get 3385959,717 isk after refining perfectly in V0DF-2 (mineral price) per 1 unit of comp pyro

so about 550000 isk profit per unit comp pyro

dotlan jump planner shows that with perfect skills jump from jita to V0DF-2 + jump V0DF-2 to Jan will cost about 7390240
isk (680 isk per ox iso) + we need cyno. so lets asume it will cost 10-15 millions per travel to jita and back.

so we buy 4394 (12+ billions isk) units comp pyro - full ahshar and jump to V0DF-2 to refine

after refine there we fill anshar with minerals - minerals from aprox 189 units comp pyro

so we need aprox 23 travel cycles (to jita and back) if we want to sell all minerals

one travel cycle - 100+ millions minus fuel cost 10-15 million = about 85-90 millions profit

so looks like aprox 2 billion profit from that crazy experiment - if you will use titan bridge and freighters to unload all minerals that can be faster but then you need to get those freighters back

"Are you taking into account the cost to jump the freighter back to fill it up?" yes

according dotlan jump planner with perfect skills for anshar- jump from V0DF-2 to Jan - 3439 Oxygen Isotopes; jump from Jita to V0DF-2 7429 Oxygen Isotopes + you need 2 cynos, so 10-15 millions isk more than enough for this.

in reality 46 jumps (23 travel cycle)

23 jumps from jita to null
23 jumps from null to low sec
115 jumps through high sec gates

better option is to use titan bridge and freighters

that's looks crazy, but good organization can put fleets of pvp ships as protection when is needed

You could also just jump it out there and sell it to the local producers that I am sincerely hoping will start being a thing.

Can't reach 100% anywhere.

As for the waste due to compression, because of how that compression is done, it's not really an issue.

You'll have approximately the same wastage if you're refining compressed ore, as if you were refining regular ore.

The biggest issues for cap producers are:

A: The compression rates are lower than they were before. around 24 to 1, rather than the 28-32 to 1 you could get before.
B: The differences in refining rates between outposts and other places.


B may or may not be an issue, depending on how alliances decide to tax their refineries. If they tax them to the same degree as the bonus, then it evens out (And gives the alliance a nice little bottom up income from its Indy players, which it didn't really have before.)

i made calculations only on pyroxeres here but really interesting what will be if we pick other types of compressed ore. i bet that your team already made these calculations and some predictions. for example WH can compress and export high end ore.

and who is preventing to do both?

these 23 jumps from jita in my calculations are empty anshar, but it can be not empty, so a lot more wasted fuel than will be in reality.

Two important points are still missing:

1st: miners could compress ore in systems without stations / outposts in 0.0 and highsec
2nd: you could use a low-sec station without refining service for your production, because you should / want to refine the ore at a POS and transport it to the station.

imagine, Highsec-miners collecting ore and ice in systems with NO station, compressing the Veldspar at a POS and fly it to Jita, not refining it- no, selling it as compress Tritanium for the 0.0 production

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/reprocess-all-the-things/

no 4 % imp
no Outpost Upgrade

you will get in the end the same amount of minerals as before, BUT you won't transport Railguns, instead you will buy 10 % compressed Veldspar from Highsec miners...



50 % Basis refining
50 % *1,1*1,1*1,15*1,04 *1,381 (Refining, Processing, Refining Efficiency 5/5/5 + Imp + correction factor for new batches)
99,92 % = 0,08 % less yield in Highses but the ability to compress instant everywhere at a POS without the need of a Rorqual
with a common refining array at a POS in Highsec

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65852/1/ReprocessingArray.png
and in ANY Outpost in 0.0, not in coquerable stations and not in all NPC stations
it is around 6 % more than in a Minmatar station compared to the acutal situation



with the "intensive array" http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65852/1/ReprocessingArray.png


60 % *1,1*1,1*1,15*1,04 *1,381
asuming your outpost has the Tier 3 upgrade, which I have never seen before.

in minerals with perfect skills and implant from the same ore as we have today

compressed ore will be more compressed than we have now[/quote]

yeah, but we won't refine 1 Veldspar and will receive 1.2 Veldspare as minerals
we will mine more "minerals" (as ore) and receive more in a 0.0 Minmatar station with Tier 3 Upgrade compared to now!