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[Rubicon 1.3] New way of acquiring the Astero, Stratios and Nestor

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Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#281 - 2014-03-08 10:35:05 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

I'm no math expert but I'm pretty sure 300% = 6 drones not 8.




You are right, you are no math expert

100% = x2, 200% = x3, 300% = x4

4x2=8

If there are any other pre-algebra level math questions I'm here all day.
Yeah I left school over 40 years ago so have probably forgotten more than you currently think you know.
Just so your ego can get a further little boost, I was wrong..
Feel better now?

Regardless of whether it is 6 or 8, until the changes are available on sisi for player testing there is no way to know if we have another RLML, RHML situation being dumped on us.









My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#282 - 2014-03-08 11:06:31 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
You could give the rattlesnake 2000dps and its still not going to be as useful or popular as the pirate ships with asymmetric warfare bonuses.
Machariel : speed + range
Bhaalgorn: deadly neuts + unescapable webs
Vindicator : web lockdown

rattlesnake needs something else.



Especially since the Vindi gets up around that DPS mark also. So even if the Snake gets the same treatment as the worm then it still won't be better than a Vindi.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#283 - 2014-03-11 17:13:21 UTC
Could you also try to put loot back into drones to make them useful again to rat? It would be nice if you changed drones in the drone regions to drop loot and bpc's like you have had with pirates, but add new 'rogue drone' pirate faction modules and things. It would be nice to see the Drone Regions become profitable again, and have t1 mission drones drop some added meta-level drone mods much in the same way normal mission npc's drop module loot.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#284 - 2014-03-12 15:13:09 UTC
may i remind you people that we have a thread for discussion about the (awful) propositions of CCP Rise for pirate faction ships in this subforum, this thread must be about the SoE ships......
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#285 - 2014-03-12 22:14:05 UTC
Silivar Karkun wrote:
may i remind you people that we have a thread for discussion about the (awful) propositions of CCP Rise for pirate faction ships in this subforum, this thread must be about the SoE ships......

Nestor prices actually went up, so I see this is working as intended. Lol

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#286 - 2014-03-12 23:08:21 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:
may i remind you people that we have a thread for discussion about the (awful) propositions of CCP Rise for pirate faction ships in this subforum, this thread must be about the SoE ships......

Nestor prices actually went up, so I see this is working as intended. Lol


Probably becasue they buffed the Nestor quite a bit in 1.3, more cap for RR and doubled the RR range.

Astero prices dropped about 20% as patch day approached.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#287 - 2014-03-12 23:45:43 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Probably becasue they buffed the Nestor quite a bit in 1.3, more cap for RR and doubled the RR range.

So does this mean it's now useful?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#288 - 2014-03-13 00:10:27 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Probably becasue they buffed the Nestor quite a bit in 1.3, more cap for RR and doubled the RR range.

So does this mean it's now useful?

Not really no. But it means people might try it a little more. Than it's previous terrible state.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#289 - 2014-03-13 00:33:18 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Not really no. But it means people might try it a little more. Than it's previous terrible state.

So it's less bad? Not sure if that's a ringing endorsement, lol. Lol

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Eve's Supplier
Triggered.
#290 - 2014-03-13 18:01:05 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
the long term value of Sisters LP won't be affected because of the reason stated above: the LP:ISK value is controlled by probe launchers and implants rather than Sisters ships.

I'm calling bullshit. Value of ships goes down, making them even less desirable to put LP into. More LP into probe launchers and implants, increasing supply for a static demand. Value of launchers and implants goes down, driving down LP:ISK value.
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#291 - 2014-03-13 22:02:06 UTC
Eve's Supplier wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
the long term value of Sisters LP won't be affected because of the reason stated above: the LP:ISK value is controlled by probe launchers and implants rather than Sisters ships.

I'm calling bullshit. Value of ships goes down, making them even less desirable to put LP into. More LP into probe launchers and implants, increasing supply for a static demand. Value of launchers and implants goes down, driving down LP:ISK value.



SOE LP was worth a lot before the ships existed at all, stands to reason that you could give the ships away and the LP would still retain value.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#292 - 2014-03-13 23:04:24 UTC
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Eve's Supplier wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
the long term value of Sisters LP won't be affected because of the reason stated above: the LP:ISK value is controlled by probe launchers and implants rather than Sisters ships.

I'm calling bullshit. Value of ships goes down, making them even less desirable to put LP into. More LP into probe launchers and implants, increasing supply for a static demand. Value of launchers and implants goes down, driving down LP:ISK value.



SOE LP was worth a lot before the ships existed at all, stands to reason that you could give the ships away and the LP would still retain value.

CCP has ensured SOE LP retains its current high value.
For the Nestor especially to stand a chance of acceptance and use, SOE LP needed to take a dive in value. This didn't happen, Nexus chips were brought into play to 'balance' things.
These now take the pressure off SOE mission runners income, give drone region residents a reason to login and hopefully SOE ship prices (Nestor) will start to come down to acceptable levels.

Once the Nestor drops to around 1 bil less than it is currently selling for, it 'may' see some flying around and they will be more than a collectors item.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

EvEa Deva
Doomheim
#293 - 2014-03-13 23:22:58 UTC
Yes we would like to keep the Nester price insainly high so our friends in null *wink wink can make a butload of cash off it before people realize its crap, its not like they had any foresight on what we were doing and made a rush for taking the worst region in eve besides provi.

/tinfoil
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#294 - 2014-03-18 13:50:30 UTC
My first look at the Jita market data post-patch indicates:

Nestor: average 5 bargains (trades) per day
Machariel: average 50 bargains per day
Rattlesnake: average 50 bargains per day
nightmare: average 30 bargains per day
vindicator: average 40 bargains per day
bhaalgorn: average 10 bargains per day
paladin: average 30 bargains per day
vargur: average 30+ bargains per day

These numbers don't seem out of line when correlated with the perceived utility (to me) of the hulls.

I can't say it's looking positive for the Nestor at the moment. It's early yet, but it seems to me that the Nestor needs a rethink sooner than later.

Here are the numbers again with my annotations indicating [my perception of] utility in various fields:

Machariel: average 50 bargains per day (pvp, pve)
Rattlesnake: average 50 bargains per day (pvp, bait, pve, capless operations)
nightmare: average 30 bargains per day (pvp, pve)
vindicator: average 40 bargains per day (pvp, pve at a push)
bhaalgorn: average 10 bargains per day (anti-capital pvp, always needs support hence reduced utility)
paladin: average 30 bargains per day (pve, bait)
vargur: average 30+ bargains per day (pve, bait)
Nestor: average 5 bargains (trades) per day (struggling to think of a use...)

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#295 - 2014-03-18 18:26:57 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
I can't say it's looking positive for the Nestor at the moment. It's early yet, but it seems to me that the Nestor needs a rethink sooner than later.

I think those 5 daily trades are suspect, too. It's not a stretch to suggest some are to establish a selling price and give the impression these are actually being sought after.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#296 - 2014-03-19 12:20:33 UTC
Eve's Supplier wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
the long term value of Sisters LP won't be affected because of the reason stated above: the LP:ISK value is controlled by probe launchers and implants rather than Sisters ships.

I'm calling bullshit. Value of ships goes down, making them even less desirable to put LP into. More LP into probe launchers and implants, increasing supply for a static demand. Value of launchers and implants goes down, driving down LP:ISK value.


To bad that hasn't happened in the last 7 years. Ships with the probes and probe launchers and clones with the implants die every day keeping the demand high. It doesn't matter that the value of the ships went down some, they are STILL an LP sink that (along with perpetually high demand for exploration gear) insulate said gear from losing value. And then there is the factor that the astero and Startios are more accessible to newer player than tech2 exploration ships, which means that even though the price is reasonable demand will remain high as long as EVe gets any new players at all.

I've literally been selling Sisters probes for 7 years and I've never ever made as much is as i have since the intro of the SOE ships. Removing the ships completely form the LP store would be the only thing that would bring the value of the non-ship items back down to what they were, which would make those items still be more profitable than anything else you could get in high sec.
MukkBarovian
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#297 - 2014-03-19 18:23:37 UTC
The Nestor would be decent at Rattlesnake prices and workable at the 600-800mil isk range. I'm shocked that I haven't seen some kind of downward trend in the price since the expansion. I have held the public opinion in PL that the Nestor would be a decent ship if the price was right. It seems to have been a mistake. If the price drops to a reasonable level in the next several months or so I could be vindicated. But at the moment the Nestor is terrible.

I have flown the hull into combat and I have a handful of killmails in one. That was before 1.3. My main thought at the time was how incredibly stupid I was being. The ship had under 200K EHP and I figured that even if someone couldn't defeat our fleet, they might suicide all their stuff to kill me. I hotdropped a Black Legion Talos fleet at one point and was sure my death was imminent. The Talos would stick around, blap me, and all die. Isk war won, and that bullshit. Instead they ran away. At least the warp speed buff is nice. The ship can handily keep up with a roaming armor cruiser gang.

My Nestor experience could have (and has) been replicated by sticking warp speed rigs on a T1 BS such as the Domi. I would not recommend duplicating it. At its current price, the Nestor cannot be sensibly used in PVP. I don't know why someone might want to use one in PVE over better cheaper options. And I just can't see why anyone would value it at the current prices if SOE LP don't need to be involved in its creation.

Why isn't the price dropping? Who actually wants these things at 1.5bil buy? I sold the one I was using and bought another carrier with the extra isk. Are things working toward some market saturation point where all the collectors have picked one up and then the price will drop? Are there just not enough drops in 0.0 to provide for the 5 to 10 purchases there are daily? Has the SOE LP price created some kind of psychological barrier people are unwilling to cross?

My belief prior to 1.3 was that drops would dominate the market quickly. The stupid 1.5bil buy orders would be filled by dronelands ratters and then a slow but unstoppable crawl towards a reasonable price would begin. It might take months but it would eventually settle somewhere people agreed the ships abilities deserved. But today, a week after the patch, the stupid 1.5 bil buy orders remain, and people are still selling at 1.6 bil. Who are these people and what are you guys doing with these ships?
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#298 - 2014-03-24 10:00:45 UTC
The drop rates of the chips are way too low to actually show on the market.

Winner ATXI , 3rd place ATXII, winner ATXIII, 2nd ATXIV - follow me on twitter: @ForlornW

King Caldari III
Doomheim
#299 - 2014-03-24 23:59:47 UTC
I have killed 10 sentient battleships and received no chips, or any other loot of value. Though in theory this may have been a good change, I agree with the previous poster that the drop rate is too low.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#300 - 2014-03-25 02:42:51 UTC
King Caldari III wrote:
I have killed 10 sentient battleships and received no chips, or any other loot of value. Though in theory this may have been a good change, I agree with the previous poster that the drop rate is too low.

Maybe someone forgot to seed the chips Twisted

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.