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CSM Campaign who are you voting for?

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#261 - 2014-03-23 21:17:55 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
So my original statement stands. If "72%" of the players can't muster more than 2 candidates, is that a problem with the other 28% or with the 72%? What electoral system could represent people who refuse to vote or run? The functionally ******** idea of "allocated" seats would be ridiculously easy to game by organised groups.

It seems you know the answer.

Scrap the bad system which is rejected by the many (which democracy supposedly represents) and only really serves a small minority in the game.

It is the height of bureaucratic and political arrogance to pursue democracy when the majority has rejected it.


"the majority" didn't reject anything.

They didn't even bother to vote. So yeah, **** 'em.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#262 - 2014-03-23 21:21:34 UTC
Not every EVE player is eligible to vote. EG: accounts less than 30 (or was it 60?) days old.

Some of those 500k were also Serenity players, and therefore also disqualified.

14% of the electorate voted.

Additionally, the fact that you're essentially telling people to "Don't vote in the election because not enough people voted in the last election" is beyond satire.

The problem with the CSM is literally you.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#263 - 2014-03-23 21:22:30 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
So my original statement stands. If "72%" of the players can't muster more than 2 candidates, is that a problem with the other 28% or with the 72%? What electoral system could represent people who refuse to vote or run? The functionally ******** idea of "allocated" seats would be ridiculously easy to game by organised groups.

It seems you know the answer.

Scrap the bad system which is rejected by the many (which democracy supposedly represents) and only really serves a small minority in the game.

It is the height of bureaucratic and political arrogance to pursue democracy when the majority has rejected it.


Wait, I thought the problem was that we are so bad at letting people even know that the CSM exists.

How are these people "rejecting" something they don't even know about?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#264 - 2014-03-23 23:46:43 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
So my original statement stands. If "72%" of the players can't muster more than 2 candidates, is that a problem with the other 28% or with the 72%? What electoral system could represent people who refuse to vote or run? The functionally ******** idea of "allocated" seats would be ridiculously easy to game by organised groups.

It seems you know the answer.

Scrap the bad system which is rejected by the many (which democracy supposedly represents) and only really serves a small minority in the game.

It is the height of bureaucratic and political arrogance to pursue democracy when the majority has rejected it.


"the majority" didn't reject anything.

They didn't even bother to vote. So yeah, **** 'em.


It's not the player base that's unengaged with democracy, it's the csm candidates that have failed to appeal to the majority of the player base. That's why they are not attracting votes, because their appeal isn't broad enough. It's the candidates that should be engaging with democracy and representing broader interests within the player base ss opposed to their own special interests. People might be inclined to vote for them then.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#265 - 2014-03-23 23:56:21 UTC
Who are the CSM? I distinctly remember the Somer Blink affair. The CSM told us they would get into the bottom of it. I guess they are still trying.
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#266 - 2014-03-24 00:02:14 UTC
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Who are the CSM? I distinctly remember the Somer Blink affair. The CSM told us they would get into the bottom of it. I guess they are still trying.


They did get to the bottom of it. The bottom being that CCP had no problem with the system Somer had come up with because it benefited everyone. Only when they found out the playerbase was firmly opposed to it did they implement a change to prevent incentive to buying GTC's through affiliate links.

The matter is pretty much resolved at this point. If you want to see people fired, banned, hanged or otherwise shamed, this is a game, not a government.

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

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Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#267 - 2014-03-24 00:05:36 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
"the majority" didn't reject anything.

They didn't even bother to vote. So yeah, **** 'em.

Withholding a vote (conscious non participation) in a democracy, that is deliberately choosing to not participate in said democracy, is a no vote for the process.

It is the height of mental retardation that a process that is supposed to reflect the will of the people, rejects the will of the people. The closest parallel I can think of is the EU, where any no votes are ignored and voted upon again until the electorate gets the answer "right".

The CSM is a group chosen by a narrow group of interested parties that can directly benefit from insider information and influence. The average capsuleer in hisec, who makes up a large number of the players in this game is unrepresented because he doesn't belong to one of these narrow special interest classes.

Next, the CSM is widely perceived to be a mouthpiece for CCP, having no real power, and no members who actively and publicly hold CCP's feet to the fire.

Everyone campaigns on, "I am going to fix X and I have ideas to improve Y" and then they get elected, say almost nothing for a year, and then disappear, or run again claiming "We accomplished X, Y and Z on the last CSM but our work is not done yet." as they get sucked deeper into the political machine and lose the naive idealism from when they ran their first campaign.

So yeah, whatever. Vote. Or don't. Just don't try to pretend this process is in the interest of everyone, or that we just need more participation in politics to clean politics up or make it more effective. Because that has NEVER happened in human history.

If CCP would invest in better systems for crowdsourcing ideas and feedback (as well as a more transparent process for internal affairs) then there would be no purpose to a CSM whatsoever. It's because they have surrounded their castle with ivory towers, which demand that some politically motivated capsuleers occupy, that we are stuck with this disgusting racket today.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#268 - 2014-03-24 00:14:36 UTC
So, you're complaining because you don't have representation in something you deliberately choose not to participate in...

And that's anyone's fault but yours... why?

...

Furthermore, what exactly are you even suggesting? Is this seriously just you posting "Grr, CSM!", or do you actually have an answer to any of this?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#269 - 2014-03-24 00:34:38 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
So, you're complaining because you don't have representation in something you deliberately choose not to participate in...?

Were did I complain about lack of representation?

Democracies don't create representation. They create the perception of representation.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Is this seriously just you posting "Grr, CSM!", or do you actually have an answer to any of this?

Why Grrr CSM?

I'm pointing out that the emperor has no clothes for no greater reason than anyone has ever done so. Because it's satisfying to call a lie a lie.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#270 - 2014-03-24 00:40:43 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
So, you're complaining because you don't have representation in something you deliberately choose not to participate in...?

Were did I complain about lack of representation?

Democracies don't create representation. They create the perception of representation.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Is this seriously just you posting "Grr, CSM!", or do you actually have an answer to any of this?

Why Grrr CSM?

I'm pointing out that the emperor has no clothes for no greater reason than anyone has ever done so. Because it's satisfying to call a lie a lie.


So... not offering a solution to the perceived problem?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#271 - 2014-03-24 00:42:16 UTC
Well, after reading all of this I gotta say I'm half tempted next year to canvas within the game as well as post threads here in the forums announcing my candidacy for the CSM.

Of course it would be on a PvE platform representing the high sec demographic group. Obviously the only references I can use would be my participation as an active member in these forums for the past 6 years along with my Evelopedia contributions and editing work.

Unfortunately after CCP supposedly fixed a bug affecting the Preferences page / user settings the Evelopedia contributor history was changed and as such I became a victim of Identity Theft.

Sad

It seems that the majority of my Evelopedia work has been credited to an alt that I don't use and after submitting a bug report in September 2013 along with multiple 'Support Tickets', CCP has informed me that they are aware of the problem and hopefully will have it resolved "Soon".

Evil

Yeah right.


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#272 - 2014-03-24 00:48:50 UTC
I am voting for myself and I intend to run on a nerf highsec platform.

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Felicity Love
Doomheim
#273 - 2014-03-24 00:49:21 UTC
... will vote for whichever candidate(s) have the funniest Youtube "campaign video".... and spare no expense on the special effects... it's "bread and circuses" time and the Mob is getting ugly.

Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#274 - 2014-03-24 00:53:09 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
So... not offering a solution to the perceived problem?

What is the problem? People are delusional?

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#275 - 2014-03-24 00:54:42 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
So... not offering a solution to the perceived problem?

What is the problem? People are delusional?


So, why are you even posting? Is this some kind of forum masturbation for you?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#276 - 2014-03-24 01:16:00 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
So, why are you even posting? Is this some kind of forum ************ for you?

You seem upset. There is no need to be upset.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
Chopper Rollins
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#277 - 2014-03-24 01:20:53 UTC
I have always voted for the candidate with the dodgiest, most smugly crooked avatar. Pluses for a look of unpunished evil or diabolical stupidity.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Cadinie
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#278 - 2014-03-24 01:43:58 UTC
Our long time motto has never fit more relevantly than it does in this thread. "Your votes don't count"
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#279 - 2014-03-24 08:16:02 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
I am voting for myself and I intend to run on a nerf highsec platform.


so how are you any different to any other candidate?

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#280 - 2014-03-24 08:41:45 UTC
Jaun Pacht-Feng wrote:
Out of general curiosity who is people voting for and why?


None of the above.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...