These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Crime & Punishment

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Freighter bumping and keeping aggro with newbie ship legal?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#81 - 2014-01-27 23:55:36 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
IIshira wrote:
The OP deserved to be ganked... Why in the world would you haul BPO's in a freighter?? Haul them a few at a time in a interceptor. That way if they do get extremely lucky to get you the loss isn't that big.

I don't agree with "bumping" as it doesn't make sense. I understand that "it's just a game" so everything in Eve can't be real but a ship being able to crash into another over, over and over to prevent it from warp is just silly.

Now if CCP wants to put another ganking mechanic to replace "bumping" that might be acceptable.


Bumping makes perfect sense. Setting up a faster than light travel would have to be extremely accurate. Hence the reason ships alighn before warping. At speeds that fast, even a miniscule adjustment would result in millions of miles of course deviation. Ergo.. Making sure the ship cannot alighn via bumping them makes pretty good sense to me..


Yes and crashing one ship into another would result in massive damage to both ships. You might "bump" another ship once but that would be it. Being able to continuously bump is a silly game mechanic.
Wasabi EyeGouge
Tax Holiday
#82 - 2014-01-28 02:51:40 UTC
Why not make it so more than a specific number of bumps causes the ships to pass through eachother? This already occurs during undock and with structures in missions. A collision is fine and even a valid tactic but 5+ is bordering on stuck physics. A good remedy is to make bumps have a deminishing effect with each successive one.
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#83 - 2014-03-18 20:16:44 UTC
It's safer to fly a Freighter with an escort, or something to take down gankers with.

I have never tried multi-client during freighter flight yet, but it seems to be an option.


Another problem with that would be the static fleet which once detected could be attacked with greater force.

I think Covert ships would be good to protect the fleet.


Jump Freighter have to be safer for that.

The only problem is, carrying volume larger than JF.


Then you really need an escort fleet.
Giuseppe R Raimondo
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2014-03-18 21:05:53 UTC
I know the bumping part is legal if you end up getting ganked, witch you did. But i am not sure about the part of the noobship keeping you with the timers so you cant log off. Seems like the same as boomeranging concord with a noobship, or bringing concord to your belt with one. Best would be to w8 for the ticket
Abulurd Boniface
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2014-03-19 10:35:14 UTC
This is OP's bio (presumably to celebrate the monocle):

"I wen't blind from watching ppl doing stupid stuff. My cybernetic sight can be adjusted so it filters out all stupid stuff and leaves me in an endless bliss of joy in EVE ONLINE!

This is a true story."

My question would be: can flying an un-escorted freighter with 25 billion ISK worth of cargo in the hold be construed as 'doing stupid stuff'?
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2014-03-20 05:12:49 UTC
Could someone explain the freighter bumping/rookie ship aggro method OP is describing?

/蘭

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Jared Lennox
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2014-03-22 12:22:00 UTC
Stellar Fitzgerald wrote:
I posted a petition for my freighter loss. No reply from CCP yet and almost 2 weeks gone. Is it legal?


Copy-paste:
Hi.

I got ganked to Hisec with 25B of assets in my freighter.

I was bumped by a machariel for an hour and an rookie-ship attacked me every time I tried to logoff to keep the globals on me so I could not do anything but wait 1hour and then my freighter was shot.

I need CCP opinion if this is allowed gameplay. Is it allowed that freighter is kept stuck for an hour by bumping and using a rookie-ship to keep aggroes up?

I think this is not proper way to use game mechanics. Even tho the current mechanics are more realistic than old "logoff games" but in this situation I think its unfair. If you want to make a realistic game then all kind of meta-gaming should be not possible. This is why the machariel should keep me pointed etc. but he cant do it in HiSec, thats why its called HiSec.

Game changes all the time, I had no idea this kind of bumping&keeping aggro is possible, to lose 20B of assets because of this kind of things is kind of frustrating and thereby I need a clear answer, does CCP allow it or not?


Kill: Stellar Fitzgerald (Obelisk)


Furthermore, CCP should remove emergency warp. Whats it for anymore with current game mechanics? It only creates unnecessary fuzz.


Hauling 25bil worth cargo is bad. Furthermore auto-piloting with this freighter is worse... Assuming highsec is 100% risk-free is the worst. CCP will do nothing about it. Drink a cold glass of water and move on.

http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html
Amitabho Chattopadhyay
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2014-03-22 15:43:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Amitabho Chattopadhyay
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
here.


Would you like some cheese with your wine?

All I'm reading is that EVE's highsec mechanics should be adjusted to accommodate your incompetence (oh no, the people we were trying to bully for dosh just got their friends to smash our faces in! NERF NERF NERF). CONCORD exists for a variety of reasons, and the fact that you have to find loopholes in their protection to engage in 'highsec pvp' (a phrase that makes me laugh) because it's more satisfying for you to instakill a freighter than duel a Proteus says a lot about what kind of game you want EVE to be.

All highsec tears satisfy me, but for some reason ganker tears are the best. I can't wait until they start reducing response time the moment someone locks.
Kiryen O'Bannon
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#89 - 2014-03-22 22:25:13 UTC
I don't know that there's anything wrong with the bumping, although I think an hour is pushing the limits of reasonable, given that people can form to hank a brand new titan in 6 minutes... and people think the freighter pilot is incompetent?

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.
Matogg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#90 - 2014-03-23 05:14:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Matogg
Jared Lennox wrote:


Hauling 25bil worth cargo is bad. Furthermore auto-piloting with this freighter is worse... Assuming highsec is 100% risk-free is the worst. CCP will do nothing about it. Drink a cold glass of water and move on.



"Hauling 25bil worth of cargo is bad"
What difference does that make to you ? CODE recently killed an empty jump freighter in hi sec . Maybe more ! The point is that you don't care what a ship has in it .


"CCP will do nothing about it "............and you got this word from who ?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#91 - 2014-03-23 06:12:40 UTC
Matogg wrote:
Jared Lennox wrote:


Hauling 25bil worth cargo is bad. Furthermore auto-piloting with this freighter is worse... Assuming highsec is 100% risk-free is the worst. CCP will do nothing about it. Drink a cold glass of water and move on.



"Hauling 25bil worth of cargo is bad"
What difference does that make to you ? CODE recently killed an empty jump freighter in hi sec . Maybe more ! The point is that you don't care what a ship has in it .


"CCP will do nothing about it "............and you got this word from who ?


From CCP. Ganking and bumping are both acceptable emergent gameplay.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
WaterMarks
The Keywork
#92 - 2014-03-23 09:04:44 UTC
still think its stupid that a small ship can stop a freighter
you bring your small ship against my freighter ur a dead man... but no it this advance world of eve mass doesnt matter....

makes me wanna remove my cb radio form my oblesk and sell it off

-Fly Reckless-
Matogg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#93 - 2014-03-23 10:22:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Matogg
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


From CCP. Ganking and bumping are both acceptable emergent gameplay.



Yes , I may have read that even deeper than you did . I also read that CCP has , in the past , made necessary changes for the overall good of the game . Including bumping . Jared's statement that CCP would do nothing about it had me wondering if he had some hokus-pokus insite into the mindset of CCP .

It seems to me that a freighter that can be held in place by a couple of smaller ships for an HOUR while they wake their buddies to do an organized hi sec gank is questionable game-play , at best . It may need a tweak in the near future if hi sec ganker organizations like CODE and Goonswarm's Bat Country Corp can't police themselves .

That whole action seems to take away a valuable tool from a single person in hi sec who may not have had access to outside help like a corp or alliance . like not being able to have the worst offenders red flagged .

A bump ship and someone in a rookie ship who gets a new ride every time they get popped by Concord only has to be a casual friend of the organization doing the damage and carry no flag at all . If it happened to me they definitely would be flagged next time but that's no help this time . Concord should be able to kill a bump ship working like that and not confuse it with a couple of ships "rubbing" eachother while undocking in Jita . A deliberate bump is much more powerful . I've done both .
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#94 - 2014-03-23 10:34:12 UTC
Matogg wrote:

It seems to me that a freighter that can be held in place by a couple of smaller ships for an HOUR while they wake their buddies to do an organized hi sec gank is questionable game-play , at best . It may need a tweak in the near future if hi sec ganker organizations like CODE and Goonswarm's Bat Country Corp can't police themselves .



That's pretty much what your ilk all said the first time. Except there were a lot more of you crying about it, and the answer was still "bumping is fine".

It doesn't "need a tweak", it's not an "exploit", and no one gets their losses reimbursed because they were too stupid to avoid it.

And none of that changes just because some butthurt moron loads up 10+ billion worth of stuff and gets ganked.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#95 - 2014-03-24 01:42:09 UTC
Since you guys are on page 5 and going around in the same circles as the last 5-10 times this exact thread was posted, I'm going to throw you a bone and suggest you read any of the previous threads on the subject.

I can't share CCP correspondence here, but you can be sure every technique miniluv / bat country / code / waffles / etc uses (which includes the OP) has been petitioned both from us asking "Can we do this?" and from the daily stream of freighters who simply can't grasp "flying 25bil in a freighter is a bad idea" who will immediately mash the petition system to try to save themselves from their own incompetence.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#96 - 2014-03-24 01:44:30 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
IIshira wrote:
The OP deserved to be ganked... Why in the world would you haul BPO's in a freighter?? Haul them a few at a time in a interceptor. That way if they do get extremely lucky to get you the loss isn't that big.

I don't agree with "bumping" as it doesn't make sense. I understand that "it's just a game" so everything in Eve can't be real but a ship being able to crash into another over, over and over to prevent it from warp is just silly.

Now if CCP wants to put another ganking mechanic to replace "bumping" that might be acceptable.


Bumping makes perfect sense. Setting up a faster than light travel would have to be extremely accurate. Hence the reason ships alighn before warping. At speeds that fast, even a miniscule adjustment would result in millions of miles of course deviation. Ergo.. Making sure the ship cannot alighn via bumping them makes pretty good sense to me..


Yes and crashing one ship into another would result in massive damage to both ships. You might "bump" another ship once but that would be it. Being able to continuously bump is a silly game mechanic.


FYI this would be the best change in the history of the game and if implemented I would do literally nothing else other than ramming people to blow them up.

This is just another example of someone asking for something that they have no idea would actually harm them if implemented.

The best way to know how to stay safe is to actually try to do the crime yourself, then you learn there are 50 ways it can go wrong, and then you can learn how to actually save yourself.

Competent freighter pilots get away all the time.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Jared Lennox
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2014-03-24 02:29:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jared Lennox
Matogg wrote:
Jared Lennox wrote:


Hauling 25bil worth cargo is bad. Furthermore auto-piloting with this freighter is worse... Assuming highsec is 100% risk-free is the worst. CCP will do nothing about it. Drink a cold glass of water and move on.



"Hauling 25bil worth of cargo is bad"
What difference does that make to you ? CODE recently killed an empty jump freighter in hi sec . Maybe more ! The point is that you don't care what a ship has in it .


"CCP will do nothing about it "............and you got this word from who ?


Please do not stop.

Oh and Edit: You are actually right, bumping a freighter for an hour is bad. What we do instead is finding targets in like 4-5 minutes and gank them. I realized that you have seen our recent battle in Isanamo. That was a lot of work to do to be honest. At some point we were afraid that we wouldn't be able to deal with the illegal activity in the region but nonetheless, brave warriors of high sec have overcome with this issue easily :)) As you see, contrary to belief people assume that CODE is only about money and extortion. No my friend, CODE does not let any illegal activity in it's vicinity (All High Sec) empty or not it is indifferent DO NOT AFK AROUND US BRAH !

http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html
Tacomaco
No Taxes just fun
#98 - 2014-03-24 11:49:21 UTC
Renegade Heart wrote:
A shuttle can hold 100s of those blueprints


This ^^

I don't have that much experience but I think a shuttle is impossible to attack if flown properly.

- as it exists the station it can warp out before the session timer expires. You're in warp with 1-2 sec to spare and you can't be locked on in this time. Also applies to stargates after you jumped to the destination and you're clocked. You can still warp-out while the session timer is active.

- not sure about this but I think it accelerates faster than a frigate to the max warp speed. This means it will get to the destination faster than any ship.

- smaller signature than a frigate, I think it's of light drone size signature. Hard to lock-on, hard to hit.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#99 - 2014-03-24 12:31:51 UTC
Tacomaco wrote:

I don't have that much experience but I think a shuttle is impossible to attack if flown properly.



Well, you're right about your first 6 words of that sentence, anyway.

People pop shuttles by the buttload every day. Mostly because some people give the incredibly bad advice to run blueprints in them, so for the tiny amount of firepower it takes to pop them, it might pay off huge.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#100 - 2014-03-24 12:49:37 UTC
Jared Lennox wrote:
DO NOT AFK AROUND US BRAH !

+1 to some very good advice for whatever you're doing in Eve. If you want to AFK just dock and log off.

The only thing I could find in the OP's post that might draw the eye of CCP is that disposable noob ships were used to keep the aggro timer going to prevent log off. I don't think CCP would care unless it became a common occurrence.