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Accumulating Skillpoints when subscribed but not training skills
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Nikke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-03-22 11:39:49 UTC
I've been thinking this could be a useful addition to the game that should've been there since day one.
Simply put, if you are subscribed but for whatever reason are not training skills, you accumulate freely allocatable skillpoints based on your strongest attributes at the time.

This would eliminate the need of gifting all players extra SP after a server bork / DDOS stops players getting back to the game for a few days, making this more fair to those people who actually lost skill training time (most likely new players with short skill training times), and not giving ten year vets free 50,000 SP they likely really didn't lose.

This would also help players who have forgotten to login or have had their skill queue lapse.

I can't really think of a way to abuse this off the top of my head - sure you can allocate SP to whatever you want which might be considered problematic, but regardless that SP would have accumulated at the same rate - so if you wait for four days to apply skillpoints then you already have four days of skilltraining done, just in a different way than you've done in the past.


Let me hear your thoughts.
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-03-22 11:45:32 UTC
No thanks. Why would you even bother training skills at all then? Just leave your account active and then allocate your SP.

Posting in a hidden '24h skill queue is too short' thread.
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#3 - 2014-03-22 12:07:15 UTC
Quote:
...accumulate freely allocatable skillpoints based on your strongest attributes at the time.


without imps and booster, yes, why not. Get 1800 SP/h in case you are doing nothing.

I smell "24h skill queue is too shorty" :D
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#4 - 2014-03-22 12:25:03 UTC
1. skill points should accumulate at your lowest attribute rate, to prevent people training out of map, or better yet, half your lowest attribute rate, then knocking points off for boosters and implants

2. ANY free sp allow FoTM insta-training - so no. EVE is about living with choices you've made, and the facing the consequences of the actions you've taken (or not taken)


expanding upon point 2 - I make a char, train him up to whatever and use him, switch training to a different char, reap the max sp/hour out of the free sp gain, 6-8 months later, or however long, after CCP's just nerfed everyone's favourite toy, thereby creating a new favourite toy, I insta-train into that.
Tell me how that is not OP - someone who is training in the normal manner faces CCP also nerfing the new favourite toy (if they've even been able to predict it), thus wasting 6-8 months of their training

numbers not exact, scenario is theoretical only, T's and C's apply

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
Sjaandi HyShan
Overheated Industries
#5 - 2014-03-22 13:49:13 UTC
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
1. skill points should accumulate at your lowest attribute rate, to prevent people training out of map, or better yet, half your lowest attribute rate, then knocking points off for boosters and implants

2. ANY free sp allow FoTM insta-training - so no. EVE is about living with choices you've made, and the facing the consequences of the actions you've taken (or not taken)



I think it would be better if the skillpoints were Effective Skill Points. So based on your attributes, you may apply less based on your attributes at the time the skill queue lapsed.

At time of lapse:
Skill 1: 2200 points per hour
Skill 2 : 2000 points per hour
Accumulated SP: 2200 points per hour (highest possible)

To use:
Put all points on skill 1: ESP = Skill 1 points per hour, all applied.
Put all points on skill 2: ESP * 2000/2200, all SP applied, but worth "less"
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#6 - 2014-03-22 20:48:26 UTC
every day you aren't training is another day you're subscribed. Because people are invested in their characters. Unless fatigue sets in CCP have no reason to fight for your sub. Player burn out/boredom is their biggest problem when it comes to retaining players. Not ganking or anything like that.

I look back at the 48 bil raven kill a while ago. $2600 at the time in plex spent. If I'm not mistaken thats nearly or even over 10 years worth of sub fees... CCP wouldn't care if this guy quit because he already paid his dues so to speak.
Hemmo Paskiainen
#7 - 2014-03-23 00:00:23 UTC
I like the idea, but training a character is form of Art. Its like that small like pokemon game where you must raise some kind of annimal. There is devotion and time required to make sure all skills are injected and skilling properly. I am doing this for like waaaaaayyyy too now and wouldnt find it fair.

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#8 - 2014-03-23 00:09:33 UTC
Why would ccp want to promote inactivity?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Nikke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-03-23 00:56:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Nikke
Alright, you've made some fair points. Maybe this would not go on indefinetly but - as said, mainly I envisioned this as a safeguard against temporary service interruption or for a short lapse in not remembering when skills were ending, then how about this goes on for a few days at a time, maximum (as most of the time DDOS problems take a day or two to fix), and that you need to train a skill the normal way before it reactivates itself?
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#10 - 2014-03-23 01:26:36 UTC
Nikke wrote:
I've been thinking this could be a useful addition to the game that should've been there since day one.
Simply put, if you are subscribed but for whatever reason are not training skills, you accumulate freely allocatable skillpoints based on your strongest attributes at the time.


Strongest attribute?

How about you accumulate skillpoints based on your two lowest attriutes, then halved?

That way it acts as a safety net, rather than as a super convenient game mechanic for players who want to easily and cheaply build up a huge reserve of SP so that they can insta-learn skillz as soon as they hear about CCP's intended changes, e.g. the upcoming changes to ore refining which will almost certainly (unless heavily changed) make it relevant for a lot more characters to max out all their ore refining skillz, as opposed to the current situation where the optimum is 1/4 (if wanting to use T2 stripper crystals), 2/3 or 3/2.

A safety net for players hit by server-wide problems, or who lose internet access for a period of time and therefore become unable to log in.

That's the difference between good game design and greed.
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#11 - 2014-03-23 02:07:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Swiftstrike1

  1. Players should not be compensated with free SP because of their own failings.
  2. Players should be compensated when and only when it is CCP's fault that they are unable to access their account(s).

  3. The existing SP compensation mechanic should be changed from an "instant SP injection" to a "SP drip feed".

What I mean by "SP drip feed" is that the unallocated skill points should be automatically allocated to whatever skill you are currently training at a rate of 1 unallocated SP for every 2 SP that are trained normally. This allows players to train skills 50% faster for as long as they have unallocated SP. Therein lies the compensation for problems on CCP's end. It also prevents FoTM instant training. Therein lies the feature and/or idea.

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
Dave Stark
#12 - 2014-03-23 06:41:21 UTC
as long as it was at a reduced rate to normal training, i'd be in favour of this, and only for a limited time.

It's always a pain if you are unable to update your skill queue for one reason or another, however you'd have to have the sp accumulate at a lower rate to encourage people to actually put skills in their skill queue.
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#13 - 2014-03-23 08:07:23 UTC
Remove attributes and attribute implants. Skills train at 2700 SP/hr and the SP is deposited in to a free SP pool that is capped at 1-3 mil SP. Then when you want to train a skill you just apply the SP out of the pool. Simple for noobs to understand and not screw up and allows them to PvP without worrying about losing their +3 implants. Nice for us older players that may not be able always have access to Eve due to business trips, military deployments, etc.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#14 - 2014-03-23 08:31:17 UTC
No free training.
No safety nets.

If you want to train a skill, put it in the queue. If you forget, that's your fault and you should NOT be reimbursed.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2014-03-23 11:24:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Corraidhin Farsaidh
The only useful functionality I can think of here to alow for planned long absence from the game would be an integration of evemon or similar to allow a long term plan to be put in place *but* to implement such a plan the character would be put into a 'Hibernation' mode so it cannot be used whilst the skill queue is longer than 1 day. To prevent abuse of this any character that has used the mechanism would not be allowed to be sold on the character bazaar. Otherwise creating character bazaar toons would be far too simple.

Edit: Taking an idea from another thread it would be simplest to allow a character to pick a mastery to learn and automatically work through that plan whilst a character is listed as hibernated. Would save on integrating a different application into eve.
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
Ace's N Eight's
#16 - 2014-03-23 11:33:16 UTC
Personally I have seen this system used in Perpetuum.... a mech version of Eve. I see no issue with it except for saving on alarm clocking. It still does the long term management scheme because it still envelopes making choices. Even if at someone mentioned FOTMing the skill que.. no matter what, your not getting that SP back. The only difference I see is no more worrying if I remember to keep my que full. Sure that removes the risk of losing SP if I forgot to change a que. But I think this would be a more easier change to the Que system for player retention instead of them getting Angry if they forgot to set a que. Any SP earned while NOT having an Active Que set, Could have a ISK cost to spend to it. So if you forget to train, you have to drop ISK to catch up. If some major event happened and knocked you offline for a week.. You still have that SP earning up and your biggest worry would be an ISK sink to use it. Still learning your que, but also with a failsafe if Real Life attacked.
Sjaandi HyShan
Overheated Industries
#17 - 2014-03-23 14:55:44 UTC
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:
Personally I have seen this system used in Perpetuum.... a mech version of Eve. I see no issue with it except for saving on alarm clocking. It still does the long term management scheme because it still envelopes making choices. Even if at someone mentioned FOTMing the skill que.. no matter what, your not getting that SP back. The only difference I see is no more worrying if I remember to keep my que full. Sure that removes the risk of losing SP if I forgot to change a que. But I think this would be a more easier change to the Que system for player retention instead of them getting Angry if they forgot to set a que. Any SP earned while NOT having an Active Que set, Could have a ISK cost to spend to it. So if you forget to train, you have to drop ISK to catch up. If some major event happened and knocked you offline for a week.. You still have that SP earning up and your biggest worry would be an ISK sink to use it. Still learning your que, but also with a failsafe if Real Life attacked.


I think that could be a fair compromise between the players wanting to not have any changes and the ones that do. I remember a time when I used a jump clone, and thought I had restarted the queue. 8 hours later when I woke up, I found I hadn't and had lost that time. It wasn't that I wasn't playing or being lazy, it was that I sincerely thought my skill was training until EveMon the next morning told me my queue was paused. This would have allowed me to drop a few to catch up on those hours.