These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Blitzing L4s
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2014-03-18 12:02:58 UTC
Organic Lager wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:
Back off topic, why are you not using HAMs on the tengu? Javs will put you 60km out with 600+ dps for the very few blitz missions where you don't start in fury range. Furys will put you about 35km with 1000 dps more then enough to quickly waste a trigger and warp off.


10s switch time plus HAMs are gimp for every second you're not firing rage.


I'll have to test that tonight but I'm pretty sure in 90% of missions hams would be significantly quicker.



The benefits of HAMs on a Tengu far outweigh the benefit of range.

Tengu's aren't exactly heavy and slow either, 40km range on T1 gets you within range of most missions and the ones that start you off further away generally have somewhere you have to travel to anyways. The DPS boost from HAMs is almost gamebreaking tbh
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#22 - 2014-03-18 19:18:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
Tested this HML Tengu today to a lot of L4s.

If rigged for range, HAMgu with javs will hit harder, further and faster than fury HMLs almost anything up to BC size, even adjusting for reload times. Have in mind that BCs and BSs are the easy part in missions, most problems come from damage application to small targets. An example.

HAMgu with 1xT2 HBT, 1xT2 RFCP and 1xT1 HBT (you can go for a T1 RFCP in the third slot for a little more range, but the HBT is more worth it overall)
HMgu with 2xT2 Rigor and 1xT2 Flare

Missile speed:
Jav:10300m/s
Fury: 9675m/s

Missile range:
Jav: 74.2km
Fury: 70.7km

Explosion radius
Jav: 93.8m
Fury: 116m

Explosion Velocity
Jav: 152m/s
Fury: 122m/s

Paper DPS with reloading factored
Jav: 573
Fury: 624

Adjusted DPS for npcs @pursuit speed.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9/Dante80/bellycancer/18-Mar-1421-15-58_zpsd066180f.png

Will revert back to HAMs tomorrow..C:
AGORAPHOBIC NOSEBLEED
Perkone
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-03-18 20:52:49 UTC
So what dies an optimal HAM Tengu fit look like these days?

I have returned to the game after taking a break since 2011. I used to run a HM Tengu for Anoms in 0.0, but that was a while ago. I plugged the EM hole w/ an active hardner, along with two other invulnerability fields an AB and LSE for buffer. I never had any issues, but I wasn't running LVL 4s either.

I can't remember what I used for the subsystems or rigs, but I imagin that it is not optimal for a HAM load out.

Thanks in advance for your input.
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2014-03-18 21:55:18 UTC
AGORAPHOBIC NOSEBLEED wrote:
So what dies an optimal HAM Tengu fit look like these days?

I have returned to the game after taking a break since 2011. I used to run a HM Tengu for Anoms in 0.0, but that was a while ago. I plugged the EM hole w/ an active hardner, along with two other invulnerability fields an AB and LSE for buffer. I never had any issues, but I wasn't running LVL 4s either.

I can't remember what I used for the subsystems or rigs, but I imagin that it is not optimal for a HAM load out.

Thanks in advance for your input.



HAMs in the highs
Prop, TP and Web + Tank in mids
T2/CN Balls x3 in lows + DCII for piece of mind

Rigs for range

I would use a cheap deadspace small booster but a T2 med can work too.
stoicfaux
#25 - 2014-03-19 04:16:41 UTC
Meh, a HAM tengu needs to be firing Rage ammo. Tengu HAM v HML kill times.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#26 - 2014-03-19 15:15:40 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Meh, a HAM tengu needs to be firing Rage ammo. Tengu HAM v HML kill times.




What missions are you not within 35km of a trigger bs while blitzing? Javs will still 1-3 pop any cruiser or frig same as hm.

Blockade is about the only one that comes to mind and you should not be running this in a tengu anyway
Right hand of zazz? Hms would probably win out on this one

Hams also allow you to 1 shot that cruiser in pocket 2 of dread pirate, pretty sure hms can't do that.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-03-20 13:50:35 UTC
Organic Lager wrote:
Hams also allow you to 1 shot that cruiser in pocket 2 of dread pirate, pretty sure hms can't do that.


Yuu can land 3 OH HML volleys on it anyways so it's going to die in any case.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#28 - 2014-03-20 14:09:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
Blitz Apollo wrote:
I'm pretty lost now. You have to clear some rooms to get to the next. Sometimes if you want to blitz without a full clear you have to kill triggers which means you need plenty of tank, i.e Marauder. Anyway, you seem intent on trying to semi-blitz with a cheap fit, so good luck chap.


Dude, let it go. He wants to blitz with a tengu or other t3 as he specified, and there are a number of valid reasons for wanting to do that instead of using a marauder.

OP, it is worth mentioning that for the price of a t2 tengu you could get a higher dps battleship. However, the tengu is pretty good. HML tengu is quite good but really benefits from high missile skills and implants. HAMs have better application, worse range, better raw damage when using rages, but imo in missions a ham tengu needs a mwd to significantly be better than fury hmls. Just don't mission with a tengu in amarr space where you'll face lots of em shooting and em weak enemies. Against mercenaries, angels, guristas, serpentis, kinetic is just fine and the tengu gets good dps and good application. For both weapon systems its all about the t2 rage/fury.

EDIT: just read butler's post, interesting. Hmm, i suppose an AB hamgu would work better if its fully ran range rigs. Its basically a better HMLgu than the HMLgu. Even tighter fit, too. And 40km on rages is actually getting into the "not a PITA to use" range.

[Tengu, Range Hams] Needs AWU V, Energy Grid Upgrades V, Launcher Rigging IV
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II

Corelum C-Type 10MN Afterburner
'Censer' Medium Capacitor Battery I
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Dread Guristas EM Ward Field
Shield Boost Amplifier II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II

Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II

Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay

DPS with lvl 5 missile supports, lvl 4 spec, no implants
javs: 611 @ 74km
faction: 780 @ 49km
rage: 916 @ 41.2km

hmm, I think i have to buy another tengu. I can imagine tweaking this for doing explo or cutting down on range a bit for doing anomalies.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
#29 - 2014-03-20 16:33:28 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Blitz Apollo wrote:
I'm pretty lost now. You have to clear some rooms to get to the next. Sometimes if you want to blitz without a full clear you have to kill triggers which means you need plenty of tank, i.e Marauder. Anyway, you seem intent on trying to semi-blitz with a cheap fit, so good luck chap.


Dude, let it go. He wants to blitz with a tengu or other t3 as he specified, and there are a number of valid reasons for wanting to do that instead of using a marauder.

OP, it is worth mentioning that for the price of a t2 tengu you could get a higher dps battleship. However, the tengu is pretty good. HML tengu is quite good but really benefits from high missile skills and implants. HAMs have better application, worse range, better raw damage when using rages, but imo in missions a ham tengu needs a mwd to significantly be better than fury hmls. Just don't mission with a tengu in amarr space where you'll face lots of em shooting and em weak enemies. Against mercenaries, angels, guristas, serpentis, kinetic is just fine and the tengu gets good dps and good application. For both weapon systems its all about the t2 rage/fury.

EDIT: just read butler's post, interesting. Hmm, i suppose an AB hamgu would work better if its fully ran range rigs. Its basically a better HMLgu than the HMLgu. Even tighter fit, too. And 40km on rages is actually getting into the "not a PITA to use" range.

[Tengu, Range Hams] Needs AWU V, Energy Grid Upgrades V, Launcher Rigging IV
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II

Corelum C-Type 10MN Afterburner
'Censer' Medium Capacitor Battery I
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Dread Guristas EM Ward Field
Shield Boost Amplifier II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II

Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II

Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay

DPS with lvl 5 missile supports, lvl 4 spec, no implants
javs: 611 @ 74km
faction: 780 @ 49km
rage: 916 @ 41.2km

hmm, I think i have to buy another tengu. I can imagine tweaking this for doing explo or cutting down on range a bit for doing anomalies.



This got me interested. Ill have to spend a couple of weeks perfecting my missile skills before I try it though. they are good but I get the feeling that Ill need them perfect skills to really make good use for this.

For some reason HAMgu have always been a nono for me while dealing with missions. Thanks
stoicfaux
#30 - 2014-03-22 00:53:20 UTC
Organic Lager wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Meh, a HAM tengu needs to be firing Rage ammo. Tengu HAM v HML kill times.




What missions are you not within 35km of a trigger bs while blitzing? Javs will still 1-3 pop any cruiser or frig same as hm.

IIRC, lots.

For a rough metric, track how many Rage and Javelin missiles you use per mission and you can calculate whether you would have been better off with HMLs.

878 = Rage HAM DPS, 585 = Jav HAM DPS, 686 Fury HML DPS, x = % break even
878(x) + 585(1-x) = 686
878x - 585x = 686-585
293x = 101
x = .34
So if you're shooting with Rage 34% or more of the time, then you should be doing as well or better than HML Furies.


Quote:

Blockade is about the only one that comes to mind and you should not be running this in a tengu anyway

Eh? Why not? Back pre-HML nerf, I was blitzing Angel blockade in 6-7 minutes in a Tengu. The trick is to fly away from the blobs of NPCs and pop the triggers at range. You may have to add a minute or two nowdays, but Blockade pays very well for blitzing.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2014-03-22 14:10:39 UTC  |  Edited by: King Aires
stoicfaux wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Meh, a HAM tengu needs to be firing Rage ammo. Tengu HAM v HML kill times.




What missions are you not within 35km of a trigger bs while blitzing? Javs will still 1-3 pop any cruiser or frig same as hm.

IIRC, lots.

For a rough metric, track how many Rage and Javelin missiles you use per mission and you can calculate whether you would have been better off with HMLs.

878 = Rage HAM DPS, 585 = Jav HAM DPS, 686 Fury HML DPS, x = % break even
878(x) + 585(1-x) = 686
878x - 585x = 686-585
293x = 101
x = .34
So if you're shooting with Rage 34% or more of the time, then you should be doing as well or better than HML Furies.


Quote:

Blockade is about the only one that comes to mind and you should not be running this in a tengu anyway

Eh? Why not? Back pre-HML nerf, I was blitzing Angel blockade in 6-7 minutes in a Tengu. The trick is to fly away from the blobs of NPCs and pop the triggers at range. You may have to add a minute or two nowdays, but Blockade pays very well for blitzing.



Ummm, Except we can shoot HAM Javs 4km futher with a 93m exp radius and a 150 exp velocity versus the Rage HML that gets 90more dps at less range and has a 180m exp radius and a 102 velocity...

So unless you are fitting a target painter and hoping it hits in falloff... better to go with the HAMs w/AB (because when I get in close the DPS isn't even close and still has a better radius and velocity on the charge.

If you do three rigors on the HML you still have a worse velocity and slightly higher radius AND less range with Rage on a slower missile. Then when you get in close, the DPS of the Rage HAM is 27% greater and at perfect velocity for Cruisers and BS.
Previous page12