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Eve just a rental universe! Getting out of hand?

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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2014-03-22 11:34:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Tauranon wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Stop calling it a sandbox when its obviously not given there is only one way to win and lose sov. One way. Not two, not three. ONE themepark way and that's to turn up at x time to face up to 37,000 player coaltions.

And that was as I already showed, created by an EvE PLAYER, turned dev, turn back to EvE player.


No, the way to win Sov is to ensure that 37,000 character alliances have pressing reasons to NOT turn up to contest your timers.

ie

guns.
politics.
spies.
opportunism.

etc.

That's horsecrap. 37,000 people is more than the populations of the smallest 30 countries in the world. There is literally nothing you can do as a normal EVE player, corporation or alliance against that many people but to pay to rent, try join the coalition or go to npc space and give up on the major element of the game which is sov.

There are more people in CFC than active servicemen in my countries defence force. That's the reason there is one huge blue blur in the map I posted above.

Look at how rediculous this is - whats CCP's plan - nothing.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Oxide Ammar
#62 - 2014-03-22 11:57:12 UTC
I don't know when did people started to rent space but I'm sure it wasn't CCP intention for derailing the game like that, I'm sure they had fluffy ideas of ppl fighting from system to system capturing and losing regions 24/7, that ended right now with couple of big coalitions that they agreed to give the audience a show without touching each other rented space since it's their method of ISK printing these days.

For some reason I think that all buffing changes they are doing to nullsec in every expansion will lead to pull the carpet from under renters with some kind of wako feature at certain point, CCP don't like passive incomes especially if it comes in 9-10 figures like that. So when null alliances start to whine CCP will be replying that we paved the whole road for you to generate income from active ways we introduced recently to you.

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Dave Stark
#63 - 2014-03-22 12:00:49 UTC
i've yet to see a convincing argument as to why renting is a problem, much less a problem that needs addressing.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2014-03-22 12:04:53 UTC
Before you say "oh its not CCP's fault that players band together" well guess what it is CCP's fault. Its also CCP's job to act as an umpire in the game. If the game becomes imbalanced because of game mechanics which it obviously has, then its CCP's responsibility to correct that.

Players do things like create ridiculously over-sized coalitions because CCP has neglected to put in safeguards to prevent that imbalanced behavior.

Ask yourself the following questions.

If you have the means to move freely and quickly around the map does having a 37000 man coalition benefit you? If you have 24 hours to gather your forces against an attack does 37,000 man coalitions benefit you?

If it took a significant amount of time for Razor to travel all the way down to Period Basis from Tenal would a alliance down in Period Basis be likely to be in a coalition with Razor? If furthermore you didn't have the luxury of being emailed by your POS, had dinner, made love to your wife / girlfriend, had a sleep, got up, had breakfast, went to work, came back from work, had dinner, before you had to respond to an attack of the night before, would having an alliance with Razor up in Tenal, who wouldn't normally be able to help you be worthwhile...

So yes, CCP is responsible for players forming massive coalitions in EVE. Directly responsible.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#65 - 2014-03-22 12:11:05 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
So yes, CCP is responsible for players forming massive coalitions in EVE. Directly responsible.


You make it sound like it's a bad thing.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Dave Stark
#66 - 2014-03-22 12:12:47 UTC
dexington wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
So yes, CCP is responsible for players forming massive coalitions in EVE. Directly responsible.


You make it sound like it's a bad thing.


apparently playing with other people in an MMO (y'know, a multiplayer game) is bad.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2014-03-22 12:15:08 UTC
dexington wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
So yes, CCP is responsible for players forming massive coalitions in EVE. Directly responsible.


You make it sound like it's a bad thing.

Probably not bad for you CFC, I'm sure your laughing all the way to Reykjavik for the regular CSM meeting but for the majority of the playerbase who pay to keep EvE going, and to people who are thinking of joining, its a very bad thing.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Dave Stark
#68 - 2014-03-22 12:15:54 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
dexington wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
So yes, CCP is responsible for players forming massive coalitions in EVE. Directly responsible.


You make it sound like it's a bad thing.

Probably not bad for you CFC, I'm sure your laughing all the way to Reykjavik for the regular CSM meeting but for the majority of the playerbase who pay to keep EvE going, and to people who are thinking of joining, its a very bad thing.


they're free to do something about it.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2014-03-22 12:17:47 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
dexington wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
So yes, CCP is responsible for players forming massive coalitions in EVE. Directly responsible.


You make it sound like it's a bad thing.

Probably not bad for you CFC, I'm sure your laughing all the way to Reykjavik for the regular CSM meeting but for the majority of the playerbase who pay to keep EvE going, and to people who are thinking of joining, its a very bad thing.


they're free to do something about it.

No they're not. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. Why lie?

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Dave Stark
#70 - 2014-03-22 12:19:15 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
dexington wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
So yes, CCP is responsible for players forming massive coalitions in EVE. Directly responsible.


You make it sound like it's a bad thing.

Probably not bad for you CFC, I'm sure your laughing all the way to Reykjavik for the regular CSM meeting but for the majority of the playerbase who pay to keep EvE going, and to people who are thinking of joining, its a very bad thing.


they're free to do something about it.

No they're not. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. Why lie?


remind me what game mechanic the cfc have access to that no other player does that means that they're immune to the efforts of every other pilot in eve.

please, it seems to have slipped my memory.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#71 - 2014-03-22 12:19:41 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
dexington wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
So yes, CCP is responsible for players forming massive coalitions in EVE. Directly responsible.


You make it sound like it's a bad thing.

Probably not bad for you CFC, I'm sure your laughing all the way to Reykjavik for the regular CSM meeting but for the majority of the playerbase who pay to keep EvE going, and to people who are thinking of joining, its a very bad thing.


they're free to do something about it.

No they're not. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. Why lie?


What is stopping them from doing something about it?

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2014-03-22 12:29:26 UTC
dexington wrote:


What is stopping them from doing something about it?

Ummm I don't know.

Perhaps the inability to find any free space in that big bluuuuuuue absurdity you call a coalition. Perhaps its an inability to compete financially with that big blueeee absurdity you call a coalition.

Perhaps its an inability to build caps without sov and an inability to get sov without caps. Perhaps its because anyone who tried would have to start small and would have to turn up to fight this.

Perhaps you already know and you're just playing stupid....





CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Dave Stark
#73 - 2014-03-22 12:32:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
yeah, you've still yet to demonstrate a single reason why people can't do something about it.

linking a map with some colours on it, and a player count hasn't provided any reason what so ever.

edit: i mean, all you've done is proven that the cfc has less players than everyone else combined. i really don't get your point.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2014-03-22 12:33:05 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
yeah, you've still yet to demonstrate a single reason why people can't do something about it.

linking a map with some colours on it, and a player count hasn't provided any reason what so ever.

If you're incapable of understanding at this point then I think you'd be better off just giving up trying to understand and leave it to the adults...

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Dave Stark
#75 - 2014-03-22 12:34:36 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
yeah, you've still yet to demonstrate a single reason why people can't do something about it.

linking a map with some colours on it, and a player count hasn't provided any reason what so ever.

If you're incapable of understanding at this point then I think you'd be better off just giving up trying to understand and leave it to the adults...


you've not made a point, there's nothing to understand yet.

a map, and a player count, do not articulate which mechanic prevents players from doing something about it.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#76 - 2014-03-22 12:37:04 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

That's horsecrap. 37,000 people is more than the populations of the smallest 30 countries in the world. There is literally nothing you can do as a normal EVE player, corporation or alliance against that many people but to pay to rent, try join the coalition or go to npc space and give up on the major element of the game which is sov.

There are more people in CFC than active servicemen in my countries defence force. That's the reason there is one huge blue blur in the map I posted above.

Look at how rediculous this is - whats CCP's plan - nothing.


http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Brave_Collective

Steps to null.

(1) attractive recruiting schtick.
(2) promotion of org by being involved in events (even if its just kicking giants in the kneecaps).
(3) objectives to do *right* now to suit the size of the org (this is in fact something I'm awesome at, I can come up with many great campaigns - much of which can be started in highsec).
(4) some sort of logistics backbone to the organization that can move it to location when required, and not instantly fold under pressure.
(5) a culture of understanding that this is game about spaceships with guns, and a game about the efforts of lots of people.
(6) never allow the org to stagnate.
(7) accept that a null campaign might not stick the first time.

I'd add (8) don't tie the dead TEST albatross around your neck, but even that hasn't sunk brave just yet.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2014-03-22 12:41:28 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
yeah, you've still yet to demonstrate a single reason why people can't do something about it.

linking a map with some colours on it, and a player count hasn't provided any reason what so ever.

If you're incapable of understanding at this point then I think you'd be better off just giving up trying to understand and leave it to the adults...


you've not made a point, there's nothing to understand yet.

a map, and a player count, do not articulate which mechanic prevents players from doing something about it.

Keep thinking. It'll come to you one day.

But I'll give you a little hint:

A young boy named Dave wanted to move out of his mums basement and make his way in the world, find an not so pretty wench and build a not so pretty house for him and his wench to live in. Unfortunately Dave lived in a enchanted forest full of evil trolls. Everytime Dave tried to build his house, the evil trolls being everywhere would beat Dave up, steal his wench and knock down his house.

Dave needed an army of his own but the only way Dave could gather an army was to take over control of a bit of the forest, but the only way Dave could do that was with an army. Dave was in a situation which smart people called a catch 22.

However Dave, not understanding what a catch 22 was, continued to wonder why he couldn't take over the forest, or raise his army, so he could build his house and get funky with his ugly wench..

Does that help at all?

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#78 - 2014-03-22 12:45:09 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:


A young boy named Dave wanted to move out of his mums basement and make his way in the world, find an not so pretty wench and build a not so pretty house for him and his wench to live in. Unfortunately Dave lived in a enchanted forest full of evil trolls. Everytime Dave tried to build his house, the evil trolls being everywhere would beat Dave up, steal his wench and knock down his house.

Dave needed an army of his own but the only way Dave could gather an army was to take over control of a bit of the forest, but the only way Dave could do that was with an army. Dave was in a situation which smart people called a catch 22.

However Dave, not understanding what a catch 22 was, continued to wonder why he couldn't take over the forest, or raise his army, so he could build his house and get funky with his ugly wench..

Does that help at all?


There are multiple ways in EVE to solve that. don't even need to rent (though renting is also a solution to that).
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2014-03-22 12:46:13 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

That's horsecrap. 37,000 people is more than the populations of the smallest 30 countries in the world. There is literally nothing you can do as a normal EVE player, corporation or alliance against that many people but to pay to rent, try join the coalition or go to npc space and give up on the major element of the game which is sov.

There are more people in CFC than active servicemen in my countries defence force. That's the reason there is one huge blue blur in the map I posted above.

Look at how rediculous this is - whats CCP's plan - nothing.


http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Brave_Collective

Steps to null.

(1) attractive recruiting schtick.
(2) promotion of org by being involved in events (even if its just kicking giants in the kneecaps).
(3) objectives to do *right* now to suit the size of the org (this is in fact something I'm awesome at, I can come up with many great campaigns - much of which can be started in highsec).
(4) some sort of logistics backbone to the organization that can move it to location when required, and not instantly fold under pressure.
(5) a culture of understanding that this is game about spaceships with guns, and a game about the efforts of lots of people.
(6) never allow the org to stagnate.
(7) accept that a null campaign might not stick the first time.

I'd add (8) don't tie the dead TEST albatross around your neck, but even that hasn't sunk brave just yet.

This is just ignorance of the situation Tauranon. What you're talking about is trying to create a coalition of people that could stand up to a playerbase of 37,000 people without any access to Sov and therefore no access to capitals, capital and well, no possible way of succeeding. Its utter crap.

If it was possible you'd be doing it instead of paying CFC to rent one system. Don't be a hypocrite.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Dave Stark
#80 - 2014-03-22 12:50:22 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
yeah, you've still yet to demonstrate a single reason why people can't do something about it.

linking a map with some colours on it, and a player count hasn't provided any reason what so ever.

If you're incapable of understanding at this point then I think you'd be better off just giving up trying to understand and leave it to the adults...


you've not made a point, there's nothing to understand yet.

a map, and a player count, do not articulate which mechanic prevents players from doing something about it.

Keep thinking. It'll come to you one day.

But I'll give you a little hint:

A young boy named Dave wanted to move out of his mums basement and make his way in the world, find an not so pretty wench and build a not so pretty house for him and his wench to live in. Unfortunately Dave lived in a enchanted forest full of evil trolls. Everytime Dave tried to build his house, the evil trolls being everywhere would beat Dave up, steal his wench and knock down his house.

Dave needed an army of his own but the only way Dave could gather an army was to take over control of a bit of the forest, but the only way Dave could do that was with an army. Dave was in a situation which smart people called a catch 22.

However Dave, not understanding what a catch 22 was, continued to wonder why he couldn't take over the forest, or raise his army, so he could build his house and get funky with his ugly wench..

Does that help at all?


when the evil trolls make up less than half of the population of the forest, why does dave keep trying to build his house where the trolls live? or why didn't dave just build his house outside of the enchanted forrest?

you know, i could go on about all the other stuff dave could do but it's a long list and i haven't got time for that.

anyway can we get back to the point? which game mechanic stops players doing something about it?