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Eve just a rental universe! Getting out of hand?

First post First post
Author
Muestereate
Minions LLC
#41 - 2014-03-22 05:01:12 UTC
Renting is best carebearing in EVE. Its a market produced by demand. THe masses want what high sec was supposed to be. Despite cries to fix high low and null, the market has spoken. Within Communism, Capitalism and the free market have won victory.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#42 - 2014-03-22 05:02:44 UTC
ImYourMom wrote:
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Northern_Associates.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Greater_Western_Co-Prosperity_Sphere
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Darkness._Citizens

All these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here?


this is why we need multiple worlds jus tlike every other MMO or make some fundamental changes that stop this . Becuase alliances like this just control everything, and always will, and most of all this surely isnt what eve was supposed to be about was it?


personally i would like all nullsec to be npc or sov costs need to go up massively.


Sov null is there for control yes. The current state is an interesting patchwork of balance of power, political agreements, diplomacy etc, which is actually the desired outcome for the game designers, and is not really feasible with NPC null.

Renting is the phase that follows the space vacuum caused by the reduction in individual moon value, and thus the desire to extract isk from the space around those moons, instead of having it as buffer space. It is not in itself an entirely static scenario, because the whole time I and other CEOs are out here, we are learning what does and doesn't work economically in null and we are far more likely to be able to create the future backbone of a new alliance with the knowledge we now possess. The CFC itself has many potential fracture lines, just as there is an obvious potential fracture line in the N3 / PL coalition.

Raising sov bills will increase desire to rent to offset bills until you get to the point where sov bills make it uneconomic to either hold or rent space, at which point the population will collapse, and it will make sense for nobody to hold any space, and the entire meta game around sov null collapses.

Like or not, what happens in lowsec and in NPC nullsec is just not as interesting, nor as inspiring to outsiders who don't play as sov null is.

Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#43 - 2014-03-22 05:24:26 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
ImYourMom wrote:
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Northern_Associates.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Greater_Western_Co-Prosperity_Sphere
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Darkness._Citizens

All these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here?


this is why we need multiple worlds jus tlike every other MMO or make some fundamental changes that stop this . Becuase alliances like this just control everything, and always will, and most of all this surely isnt what eve was supposed to be about was it?


personally i would like all nullsec to be npc or sov costs need to go up massively.


Sov null is there for control yes. The current state is an interesting patchwork of balance of power, political agreements, diplomacy etc, which is actually the desired outcome for the game designers, and is not really feasible with NPC null.

Renting is the phase that follows the space vacuum caused by the reduction in individual moon value, and thus the desire to extract isk from the space around those moons, instead of having it as buffer space. It is not in itself an entirely static scenario, because the whole time I and other CEOs are out here, we are learning what does and doesn't work economically in null and we are far more likely to be able to create the future backbone of a new alliance with the knowledge we now possess. The CFC itself has many potential fracture lines, just as there is an obvious potential fracture line in the N3 / PL coalition.

Raising sov bills will increase desire to rent to offset bills until you get to the point where sov bills make it uneconomic to either hold or rent space, at which point the population will collapse, and it will make sense for nobody to hold any space, and the entire meta game around sov null collapses.

Like or not, what happens in lowsec and in NPC nullsec is just not as interesting, nor as inspiring to outsiders who don't play as sov null is.



That just gave me an idea. Big smile

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.

Thead Enco
HR..
#44 - 2014-03-22 05:43:39 UTC
ImYourMom wrote:
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Northern_Associates.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Greater_Western_Co-Prosperity_Sphere
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Darkness._Citizens

All these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here?


this is why we need multiple worlds jus tlike every other MMO or make some fundamental changes that stop this . Becuase alliances like this just control everything, and always will, and most of all this surely isnt what eve was supposed to be about was it?


personally i would like all nullsec to be npc or sov costs need to go up massively.


1. Make Friends
2. find your ballz and come take our space
3. or whine about it on a NPC alt while mission running it with the rest of the autistic plebs
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2014-03-22 06:20:57 UTC
ChickenPox wrote:
It wouldn't be too hard for CCP to add a bunch of new solar systems to the map. Been arguing for that for years.


Why? the blob will take those too.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2014-03-22 07:04:06 UTC
ImYourMom wrote:
All these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here?


What exactly is the problem?

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#47 - 2014-03-22 07:08:19 UTC
dexington wrote:
ImYourMom wrote:
All these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here?


What exactly is the problem?


That people won't let him have it for free.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2014-03-22 07:30:50 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
dexington wrote:
ImYourMom wrote:
All these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here?


What exactly is the problem?


That people won't let him have it for free.


You've got him all figured out. Cause you know, joining the blob is so complex and hard.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2014-03-22 07:36:24 UTC
EVE is a rental universe. What else would it be, with a monthly subscription fee?

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#50 - 2014-03-22 08:29:17 UTC
ImYourMom wrote:
Himnos Altar wrote:
you not being in the kitchen making me a sammich?

OR you being too lazy to put together a coalition to kick the renters out of their space?

Personally, I don't care.

Wspace for life.


Really yeah ill just spin up a 10000 man coaliion that has 10000000 titans and supers.. Roll




You mean people put effort into maintaining their control, and it requires the work of many thousands of players with trillions in assets?


Well golly gee, I guess we should try and stop them doing that.
flakeys
Doomheim
#51 - 2014-03-22 09:16:39 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Lothros Andastar wrote:
If you don't like people renting space then form an Alliance, kick out the people who own the space and don't rent it out.

Awesome idea. Let me call 39,000 friends and we'll form an alliance. Because that's how many people CFC have managed to get together.

.



Because the CFC was founded in one day right ?

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

flakeys
Doomheim
#52 - 2014-03-22 09:20:48 UTC
ImYourMom wrote:
Himnos Altar wrote:
you not being in the kitchen making me a sammich?

OR you being too lazy to put together a coalition to kick the renters out of their space?

Personally, I don't care.

Wspace for life.


Really yeah ill just spin up a 10000 man coaliion that has 10000000 titans and supers.. Roll



So your complaining people have rental empires and in the same page complain you can't do anything against it because that would require effort to do so.

You do see you just complimented them for achieving such a rental empire right ?

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

flakeys
Doomheim
#53 - 2014-03-22 09:28:12 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
dexington wrote:
ImYourMom wrote:
All these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here?


What exactly is the problem?


That people won't let him have it for free.


You've got him all figured out. Cause you know, joining the blob is so complex and hard.



There are some really nice npc null regions out there so the question is why does it even matter how much space the big coalitions have if all you are after is to have fun in nullsec without the need to join the blob ?

I never understood the problem of null sov being controlled by major powerblocks as long as there still are different ones to challange each other from time to time . Every game is a numbers game and eve is no different in that , but you do have the option to play in nullsec without the need to join in on the big blobs.


To be honest i enjoyed my stay in syndicate mostly solo or small gangs last time just as much as i enjoyed my stay in fcon space a few months ago joining in on the biggest sov battle ever.

Two totally different sides of nullplay but still both are quite enjoyable .


In eve you are never forced to do anything unlike what people like to claim often , it's a free world and each thing can be enjoyed both smallscale as largescale .

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2014-03-22 09:37:41 UTC
flakeys wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
dexington wrote:
ImYourMom wrote:
All these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here?


What exactly is the problem?


That people won't let him have it for free.


You've got him all figured out. Cause you know, joining the blob is so complex and hard.



There are some really nice npc null regions out there so the question is why does it even matter how much space the big coalitions have if all you are after is to have fun in nullsec without the need to join the blob ?

I never understood the problem of null sov being controlled by major powerblocks as long as there still are different ones to challange each other from time to time . Every game is a numbers game and eve is no different in that , but you do have the option to play in nullsec without the need to join in on the big blobs.


To be honest i enjoyed my stay in syndicate mostly solo or small gangs last time just as much as i enjoyed my stay in fcon space a few months ago joining in on the biggest sov battle ever.

Two totally different sides of nullplay but still both are quite enjoyable .


In eve you are never forced to do anything unlike what people like to claim often , it's a free world and each thing can be enjoyed both smallscale as largescale .


Problem is its not being fought over its being given freely by CCP to the major coalitions who barely have to fight for it once they take it. Likely a result of the CSM being given freely by CCP to the major alliances.

CCP has pretty set it up so their m8's win EvE regardless of what anyone else does in game.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

flakeys
Doomheim
#55 - 2014-03-22 09:56:03 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
dexington wrote:

What exactly is the problem?


That people won't let him have it for free.


You've got him all figured out. Cause you know, joining the blob is so complex and hard.



There are some really nice npc null regions out there so the question is why does it even matter how much space the big coalitions have if all you are after is to have fun in nullsec without the need to join the blob ?

I never understood the problem of null sov being controlled by major powerblocks as long as there still are different ones to challange each other from time to time . Every game is a numbers game and eve is no different in that , but you do have the option to play in nullsec without the need to join in on the big blobs.


To be honest i enjoyed my stay in syndicate mostly solo or small gangs last time just as much as i enjoyed my stay in fcon space a few months ago joining in on the biggest sov battle ever.

Two totally different sides of nullplay but still both are quite enjoyable .


In eve you are never forced to do anything unlike what people like to claim often , it's a free world and each thing can be enjoyed both smallscale as largescale .


Problem is its not being fought over its being given freely by CCP to the major coalitions who barely have to fight for it once they take it. Likely a result of the CSM being given freely by CCP to the major alliances.

CCP has pretty set it up so their m8's win EvE regardless of what anyone else does in game.



How can you expect me to give a proper reply to it when you sign off with something wich clearly shows how much biased you are in regards to sov nullsec alliances ?

Your saying it is not being fought over , when we just had the Halloween war and in that one of the largest battles in eve ever with massive losses in it .Explain that to me ....




We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2014-03-22 10:36:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
flakeys wrote:

How can you expect me to give a proper reply to it when you sign off with something wich clearly shows how much biased you are in regards to sov nullsec alliances ?

Your saying it is not being fought over , when we just had the Halloween war and in that one of the largest battles in eve ever with massive losses in it .Explain that to me ....

This pretty much says it all. Its not being fought over because there's not really anyone left to fight. There are fights but theyr'e not ongoing wars they're a battle here and a battle there.

The system was designed and setup up with the help of EvE Players who were from sov null.

The system is set up to ensure that anyone that thinks they have a chance at taking sov off the big coalitions must turn up at the big coalitions primary play time and be smashed. There is no other way to take sov. Its an artificial system that ONLY favors the the coalitions. The coalitions don't even have to gather their own intel, they're emailed by the server with the information so no sneaky guerrilla attacks either.

The so called wars are funded by the suckers who pay the coalitions to rent systems they would be able to take themselves had the failed system of timers and pre-arranged battlegrounds not been implemented.

The CSM is set up in the exactly the same way. Its the exact duplicate of sov. If you or I put our hand up when it came to voting day we would be smashed by the big coalitions who dominate the CSM, have done and will do until the system is designed fairly.

Ironically the chair of the CSM is also the same person who worked on the sov mechanics, head of Pandemic Legion, and the CSM is almost exclusively made up of null sec coalitions.

If you think there's no serious nepotism type of thing going on here you're fooling yourself.

Before I go I want to just point out that I am not personally attacking Seleene, I have read their posts since 2003 on the forums and they've always been pretty well spoken and decent. But you cannot have a fair game when the masters and the slaves are mingling to the extent they are. You get T20 type behavior and you also get hidden bias creeping into the system.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Ordak Taelen
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#57 - 2014-03-22 10:59:52 UTC
Despite the obvious current power projection issues in EVE, renting is a very cool result of a real sandbox game, and so are large coalitions and intelligently run organisations.

The people who complain about it dont understand that the meta is actually a cool part of the game and add a lot of meaning / drama to the game.

I hope renting stays in this game, but I wouldnt mind if the game mechanics would force coalitions to scale it down a little bit.



Prince Kobol
#58 - 2014-03-22 11:12:15 UTC
Wow, so many people who have missed the point.

The issue with Null sec has very little to do with large coalitions but the fact that there are many systems which are simply not worth fighting for.

Example, go to scalding pass on dotlan and you will see that RA owns sov. They do not live there any more but the space is that bad that nobody can be bothered to grind the systems.

You can see this in many other constellations.

When the space is that bad why fight for it? Why spend 10's even 100's of billions of isk fighting for something where you will never recover that isk back.

Whilst the move to by CCP to reduce the ATM of Eve (moongoo) was welcome it also removed a conflict driver and they didn't replace it.

So now for alliances to continue with SRP and paying the bills renting is the best option. Now you will say that they should be targeting each other renters, why should they?

Much like real life politics they make agreements to allow them to continue to fight, members to have fun all without stopping each side create isk.

You don't like this then complain to CCP as they created the walls to the sandbox, not the players
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2014-03-22 11:20:14 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Wow, so many people who have missed the point.

The issue with Null sec has very little to do with large coalitions but the fact that there are many systems which are simply not worth fighting for.

Example, go to scalding pass on dotlan and you will see that RA owns sov. They do not live there any more but the space is that bad that nobody can be bothered to grind the systems.

You can see this in many other constellations.

When the space is that bad why fight for it? Why spend 10's even 100's of billions of isk fighting for something where you will never recover that isk back.

Whilst the move to by CCP to reduce the ATM of Eve (moongoo) was welcome it also removed a conflict driver and they didn't replace it.

So now for alliances to continue with SRP and paying the bills renting is the best option. Now you will say that they should be targeting each other renters, why should they?

Much like real life politics they make agreements to allow them to continue to fight, members to have fun all without stopping each side create isk.

You don't like this then complain to CCP as they created the walls to the sandbox, not the players

Stop calling it a sandbox when its obviously not given there is only one way to win and lose sov. One way. Not two, not three. ONE themepark way and that's to turn up at x time to face up to 37,000 player coaltions.

And that was as I already showed, created by an EvE PLAYER, turned dev, turn back to EvE player.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#60 - 2014-03-22 11:27:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Stop calling it a sandbox when its obviously not given there is only one way to win and lose sov. One way. Not two, not three. ONE themepark way and that's to turn up at x time to face up to 37,000 player coaltions.

And that was as I already showed, created by an EvE PLAYER, turned dev, turn back to EvE player.


No, the way to win Sov is to ensure that 37,000 character alliances have pressing reasons to NOT turn up to contest your timers.

ie

guns.
politics.
spies.
opportunism.

etc.