EVE General Discussion

Amazing how inch-deep thinking persists in all societies today.

Who cares how someone decides to play? If they want to sell below value, fine. I can think of many reasons why someone might want to sell below cost.

Who cares if "they are doing it wrong"? Is it really ruining your game play? If so, EVE probably isn't for you.

That, or they can't continue to bleed money... or wander off to try something else that makes them more money in their pocket (while actually being quite inferior to the money they could be making if only they grew a brain).

It wouldn't be an issue except for the fact that there seems to be a constant supply of new lack wits ready to fill in the ranks, mean that sensible players (new and old) struggle more than necessary to turn a reasonable profit.

How many of you, back when you were first starting, saved up your ISK to buy a BPO with the intention of making your living doing industry... only to find that you would have to sell those items below cost to actually move them on the market?

Mining your own minerals for industry is fine to provide yourself with a competitive edge, but you won't catch any successful business man selling manufactured items BELOW the cost that he could simply sell the raw materials for. Nor will you see them selling raw materials for significantly less than what the current demand allows. Yet you see it in EVE every day.

Partly this is because a lot of the underlying costs to obtain those materials are not represented in EVE, and partly because most gamers don't really think about what they are doing (and eventually fail at earning the necessary game currency to obtain the items they want in a realistic time frame).

There is a reason why people saying "but minerals I mine myself are free" are considered the walking punch lines of EVE.

The price of battleships is not set by minerals I mine are free people.

I used to build hulls and sell them in dodixie. I have several billion in BPOs and I can run more than my build character has queues, so I would stop building anything the moment it got too close to the bottom line. I would typically build 3b of ships in a day, and if I stop a line, 10 of that hull don't get out on the market that day, which in dodixie was often a 5th of the daily volume.

I would put out up to 100 bc+ hulls in a day, and a typical minerals are free puts out 1 hull in a day. If I didn't extract cash for other purposes, then yesterdays sales would scale todays volume up by 5% - which illustrates the difference between someone that builds for profit, and someone that doesn't. ie I gained scale and set the market, and people who underprice and have no margin can't ever gain the scale that lets them build enough ships to matter.

Even if I had a dedicated guy front running an order, what would happen is that someone would come along that wanted 5 megathrons, take the minerals are free guys one mega, and 4 of mine in the same sale.

I can assure you that the build materials are the thing that will matter and that the people that set the market just get out when the price reaches the build price. The reproc price is immaterial unless a ship is secretly nerfed so that smart guys wind up holding useless stock, as its only smart guys that ever have enough scale to set the market price.

it's not just the minerals. the archon you build is free, too.

get on my level

Again, you all keep assuming that this is the ONLY reason that someone would sell below cost and then take offense to it that it's all these MIMAF people "causing" you to lose out on isk that you clearly deserve because you played the game "the right way" and they didn't.

It's actually really, really simple. It's called Supply and Demand. Look it up if you have to. If you can't make a profit from that one BPO you bought, then you didn't do any market research or failed to realize that you need to diversify your production. You might get angry about not making a profit but the rest of us that took the time to learn what you won't, will be just fine. We'll be making profit off of your inability to understand the market and hence, lower the competition to make even more isk.

You are complaining about a well functioning game mechanic and think the solution is to "educate" people on the errors of their ways to "fix" it. Whatever the case, the market will work it out anyway because there really isn't a problem, no matter how people like to play or what prices they sell things on the market. In the end I guess it might hurt to admit you might be wrong, but that's pretty common anyway.

If you have no life, and your time is free, wouldn't that make your time valueless as well?
And wouldn't that mean any time you spend time mining minerals is also free, thereby making the minerals free?

You don't own anything in the game, trying to assign a valuation to space pixels based on your personal worth really doesn't enter into it.

Yes since the change where you could pod kill someone for stealing your ore came in some people still jet can .

How exactly does this make the market competition free?

A free for all market would be maxed out competition, as in a free market.

And their "Fun" will help collapse the market.

I don't own a single BPO, I don't do production, my concern is that with this change production will never be a viable income ever again.

Your argument is valid as long as there less less than a 10:1 ratio of morons to regular folks.

Especially within the mining community I think you are being terribly optimistic.