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Ships & Modules

 
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Noctis

Author
Alcorak
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-03-21 20:58:03 UTC
So once upon a time CCP decided that salvaging wasn't efficient enough and needed a boost. The Noctis was born and replaced catalysts everywhere, which now do their proper job of ganking retrievers everywhere. Then this happened:

Mobile Tractor Unit: Grab all the modules without your own tractor beam!

Salvage Drone I: Salvage everything while you go take a leak!

Reprocess all the things!: Nerf reprocessing of modules by ~50% (and in fact, reprocess none of the things)!

IMO, these combine to make the Noctis just about level with the Primae in terms of usefulness. Should the Noctis be fixed or repurposed, or is this nerf a good thing given the income from actual salvage?
Ginger Barbarella
#2 - 2014-03-21 22:04:25 UTC
Alcorak wrote:
So once upon a time CCP decided that salvaging wasn't efficient enough and needed a boost. The Noctis was born and replaced catalysts everywhere, which now do their proper job of ganking retrievers everywhere. Then this happened:

Mobile Tractor Unit: Grab all the modules without your own tractor beam!

Salvage Drone I: Salvage everything while you go take a leak!

Reprocess all the things!: Nerf reprocessing of modules by ~50% (and in fact, reprocess none of the things)!

IMO, these combine to make the Noctis just about level with the Primae in terms of usefulness. Should the Noctis be fixed or repurposed, or is this nerf a good thing given the income from actual salvage?


MTU = much slower than a tractor fit to a Noctis (slower = wasted time twiddling fingers).

Salvage Drones = not as efficient as Salvagers (not as efficient = wasted time twiddling fingers).

Reprocessing = yeah, well, considering selling my reprocess (0 waste)/support alt in light of this latest nerf to high sec life.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#3 - 2014-03-21 22:40:13 UTC
My preferred anomaly running ship,, Tengu, does not have a drone bay. So I tend todrop the MTU runthe anomaly then come back in a noctis with a full rack of salvagers and mop up that way.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#4 - 2014-03-21 22:48:55 UTC
They made reprocessing modules a waste of time? Oh so just selling them has been the right choice and I didn't even know it.

Wait, why would they make reprocessing stuff inefficient?

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#5 - 2014-03-21 23:03:14 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
They made reprocessing modules a waste of time? Oh so just selling them has been the right choice and I didn't even know it.

Wait, why would they make reprocessing stuff inefficient?


Because part of the summer expansion is an overhaul of industry. Trying to make null sec more industry viable and reduce gun andmissile mining.
Dan Rae
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-03-21 23:17:51 UTC
1. Run mission, dropping MTU in every room.
2. Come back with your Noctis fitted with 8 salvagers and a flight of salvage drones.
3. ????
4. Profit.

Not a damn thing wrong with the Noctis.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-03-21 23:32:26 UTC
Aerie Evingod wrote:
Moonlit Raid wrote:
They made reprocessing modules a waste of time? Oh so just selling them has been the right choice and I didn't even know it.

Wait, why would they make reprocessing stuff inefficient?


Because part of the summer expansion is an overhaul of industry. Trying to make null sec more industry viable and reduce gun andmissile mining.

Better things to change in null.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#8 - 2014-03-21 23:34:00 UTC
Dan Rae wrote:
1. Run mission, dropping MTU in every room.
2. Come back with your Noctis fitted with 8 salvagers and a flight of salvage drones.
3. ????
4. Profit.

Not a damn thing wrong with the Noctis.

Noctis far outperforms MTU + drone combo. However they did make the primae useless, like months ago.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#9 - 2014-03-22 01:15:31 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Dan Rae wrote:
1. Run mission, dropping MTU in every room.
2. Come back with your Noctis fitted with 8 salvagers and a flight of salvage drones.
3. ????
4. Profit.

Not a damn thing wrong with the Noctis.

Noctis far outperforms MTU + drone combo. However they did make the primae useless, like months ago.


Primae was never useful.
Chris Winter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-03-22 01:17:03 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Noctis far outperforms MTU + drone combo. However they did make the primae useless, like months ago.

Primae has pretty much always been useless compared to the T1 industrials.
Illiar D'Anaari
Lassandar
#11 - 2014-03-22 02:08:58 UTC
With the MTU in every pocket, I do feel like the noctis could once again be replaced with any 8 high slots ships, with little lost in the process. The wrecks are all conveniently bunched up, no need for the increase in tractor speed/range. Its only advantage is its large cargo hold.
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#12 - 2014-03-22 04:35:21 UTC
Illiar D'Anaari wrote:
With the MTU in every pocket, I do feel like the noctis could once again be replaced with any 8 high slots ships, with little lost in the process. The wrecks are all conveniently bunched up, no need for the increase in tractor speed/range. Its only advantage is its large cargo hold.


Noctis also gets a bonus to salvager cycle time, can target 10 wrecks and can field a full flight of light(read salvage) drones. It's still the best salvager, but it's not the undisputed king it used to be.
Kairavi Mrithyakara
#13 - 2014-03-22 06:01:52 UTC
Aerie Evingod wrote:
Illiar D'Anaari wrote:
With the MTU in every pocket, I do feel like the noctis could once again be replaced with any 8 high slots ships, with little lost in the process. The wrecks are all conveniently bunched up, no need for the increase in tractor speed/range. Its only advantage is its large cargo hold.


Noctis also gets a bonus to salvager cycle time, can target 10 wrecks and can field a full flight of light(read salvage) drones. It's still the best salvager, but it's not the undisputed king it used to be.


I recently moved from one L4 agent system to another, some 27 jumps out. Too lazy to go back for my Noctis, I bought a Catalyst, fitted it with cargo mods and rigs, and 8 salvagers.

Not really sure at this point what I was getting from the Noctis that my Catalyst isn't doing. Yes, it has a cycle bonus, but "downgrading" to the Catalyst hasn't really made me feel that difference. The drones weren't speeding up my salvaging all that much, either.

The Catalyst moves about quicker, too. And with the cargo mods + rigs, its cargo bay is just about large enough to handle all the loot and salvage from multi-room L4s (Extravaganzas, Scarlett, the anti-faction missions. etc.) + as many MTUs as I may have dropped during the course of the mission.

I loved the Noctis' Tractor bonuses most of all, but now they seem fairly useless, at least for my needs. It is still, as you noted, a better salvager than others, but is it worth the 60+ mill you have to pay over a regular 8-high slot desy? Not for me.
Odithia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2014-03-22 08:39:28 UTC
Kairavi Mrithyakara wrote:

The Catalyst moves about quicker, too. And with the cargo mods + rigs, its cargo bay is just about large enough to handle all the loot and salvage from multi-room L4s (Extravaganzas, Scarlett, the anti-faction missions. etc.) + as many MTUs as I may have dropped during the course of the mission.
.

The Catalyst is also much less likely to attract a bunch of his gank-fit brothers than a slow and juicy noctis.

I agree that the noctis need something done to make it more than a small step above the MTU that is both cheaper, require no training and much less attention.
Rubishod
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2014-03-22 15:16:57 UTC
As dangerous as it is, Noctis still works best on Sleeper wrecks.
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#16 - 2014-03-23 23:20:04 UTC
Noctis needs an AoE salvaging module that only the Nocttis can fit. Works similar to a smartbomb, except it salvages stuff.

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....

Talia Valta
ValtaTeleVisuals
#17 - 2014-03-24 12:08:37 UTC
Before the MTU I used a Noctis fitted with an Inertia Stabiliser.

This helped a little with alignment times but it dropped the cargo capacity.

It didn't really make a difference to me as my loot was already in station before any salvaging was done.

In the end it's all down to your personal preference.