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High Sec Miners just got completely Buffed by CCP

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#21 - 2014-03-21 09:03:20 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
mate the change is intended to promote emergent gameplay, nerf npc services in favour of player-owned infrastructure and head towards expanding industry to all areas of space

this is an excellent buff to industry gameplay, it's something the new order definitely would applaud

it's not like the mineral market was really 'flooded' with refine loot compared to pre-crucible though (was it in crucible meta 0 and drone poop were removed?)


No it was well before Crucible. Back around 2010 I think.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#22 - 2014-03-21 09:23:53 UTC
Well, New Order can start mining their free minerals now. Lol

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#23 - 2014-03-21 09:29:20 UTC
I think you meant Null Sec miners just got a huge buff. High Sec miners have actually had their yield decreased (By 'only' about 3% but when the average profit margin is only 5% or so, 3% is huge relative to profit margins). While Null Sec miners have just had a 17% buff (just after their last buff, and the recent null industry buff also, assuming a decent coalition.)
So a Null Miner can now expect to be earning at least double a high sec miner if my maths is about right.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#24 - 2014-03-21 09:47:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Love
Dunhill Slims wrote:

In a few months, mission runners will only be able to get 50-55% refining on their mission loot.
No More shall the mineral market be flooded with with the refines of these missioners.


1 percent, 2% at best of minerals -- which the market has already grown accustomed to since the "Great Loot Nerf" and then easily shrugged off with the increased overall supply due to the "Great Barge Buff" which continues to see fewer mining ships getting blown away. Nevermind the overall increase in the player population.

"Hulkageddon", and sequels, did more to upset the flow of minerals, and then only short term.

The only thing that's going to drive up minerals prices anytime soon will be massive player consumption for some as yet unannounced "stuff" that will hopefully appear by the summer expansion... like player-built jumpgates and any potential new ship class needed to deploy/anchor said jumpgates.

It's just a re-alignment of process, nothing more, give or take a percentage point or two for those that already have the skills maxed.

CCP assuming more players will pursue the maximum skills needed for processing, etc., is a bit of a reach and wishful thinking.

Most players will simply decide they have better things to do with skill training than chase diminishing returns in the repro department.

Going to need a bigger carrot, CCP.

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#25 - 2014-03-21 10:28:56 UTC
Actually there will be a downturn from this change Felicity. Because 3% loss in High Sec assumes everyone has perfect skills. While the reality is a lot of people don't have perfect skills so the loss will be more like 10% in a lot of cases. (Trusting Dev figures which weren't entirely explained where the 3% came from so blame them not me if it's off).

And if we believe the Null Seccers that most minerals come from high sec, then that means that something like 5% of the entire market will vanish. That's a HUGE impact on a market like minerals.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#26 - 2014-03-21 10:33:34 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Actually there will be a downturn from this change Felicity. Because 3% loss in High Sec assumes everyone has perfect skills. While the reality is a lot of people don't have perfect skills so the loss will be more like 10% in a lot of cases. (Trusting Dev figures which weren't entirely explained where the 3% came from so blame them not me if it's off).

And if we believe the Null Seccers that most minerals come from high sec, then that means that something like 5% of the entire market will vanish. That's a HUGE impact on a market like minerals.


And, among other things, your statement assumes that no stockpiles currently exist.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#27 - 2014-03-21 10:45:21 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Actually there will be a downturn from this change Felicity. Because 3% loss in High Sec assumes everyone has perfect skills. While the reality is a lot of people don't have perfect skills so the loss will be more like 10% in a lot of cases. (Trusting Dev figures which weren't entirely explained where the 3% came from so blame them not me if it's off).

And if we believe the Null Seccers that most minerals come from high sec, then that means that something like 5% of the entire market will vanish. That's a HUGE impact on a market like minerals.


And, among other things, your statement assumes that no stockpiles currently exist.

Confirming that I'm not sat on a sizeable, for me at least, stockpile of minerals.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2014-03-21 22:37:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
Malcanis wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
mate the change is intended to promote emergent gameplay, nerf npc services in favour of player-owned infrastructure and head towards expanding industry to all areas of space

this is an excellent buff to industry gameplay, it's something the new order definitely would applaud

it's not like the mineral market was really 'flooded' with refine loot compared to pre-crucible though (was it in crucible meta 0 and drone poop were removed?)


No it was well before Crucible. Back around 2010 I think.

It was after I started playing, so 2012 onwards, deffo Crucible. (Anything before tiericide beginning was like a different era to today :P)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#29 - 2014-03-21 22:40:14 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Actually there will be a downturn from this change Felicity. Because 3% loss in High Sec assumes everyone has perfect skills. While the reality is a lot of people don't have perfect skills so the loss will be more like 10% in a lot of cases. (Trusting Dev figures which weren't entirely explained where the 3% came from so blame them not me if it's off).

And if we believe the Null Seccers that most minerals come from high sec, then that means that something like 5% of the entire market will vanish. That's a HUGE impact on a market like minerals.


And, among other things, your statement assumes that no stockpiles currently exist.

Confirming that I'm not sat on a sizeable, for me at least, stockpile of minerals.


Given that POS'es will be more important, I'm laughing all the way to the bank. I sell pos fuel.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
ashley Eoner
#30 - 2014-03-22 01:55:21 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Tauranon wrote:

BTW - CODE do not care about people who are watching screens and not AFK.


We do still care about them if they are in violation of the CODE. It's just that they tend to escape before we spring traps on them.

Which of course everyone is in violation at all times. It's a mildly amusing troll act though.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-03-22 02:10:18 UTC
I'd like to know who these hisec mission runners are that are bothering with the loot? When I was a newbro my old corp let me salvage every L4 site. I kept asking if I should send them a split. "No dude, if you weren't here it would just all go to waste. We make more just by running the missions as fast as we can than we would by stopping to loot." Obviously someone must loot, since there are items on the market, but is it really that much of the population? Or just a bunch of newbros trying to make a little isk?

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Salvos Rhoska
#32 - 2014-03-22 02:26:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Or just a bunch of newbros trying to make a little isk?

-People who can't blitz em for one reason or another.
-Newbros squeezing every ISK.
-Bored people.
-People who don't know any better.
-People with OCD.

No offence intended to any of them, but its generally not worth it, and its about to get even less worthwhile with the proposed reprocessing efficiency changes.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#33 - 2014-03-22 05:45:17 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
-People with OCD.


Guilty!
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#34 - 2014-03-22 07:56:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Or just a bunch of newbros trying to make a little isk?

-People who can't blitz em for one reason or another.
-Newbros squeezing every ISK.
-Bored people.
-People who don't know any better.
-People with OCD.

No offence intended to any of them, but its generally not worth it, and its about to get even less worthwhile with the proposed reprocessing efficiency changes.

Except some players, especially new players, have always earned at least a part of their income from abandoned loot, and will continue to do so. For them, properly set up, skilled up, and equipped, going after abandoned loot drops is their daily bread and butter.

Now they will have an even more plentiful supply, as even fewer mission runners will bother with it. It helps that there are many tools available now that make acquiring other peoples loot easier than ever.

It will simply be a very specialized niche that now favors volume more heavily than in the past. Loot recycling as a starter occupation is in no danger of disappearing.

The dynamic concerning null sec mining / refining vs shipping from high sec with more efficient ore compression methods is a far more interesting situation to ponder.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Dave Stark
#35 - 2014-03-22 08:32:21 UTC
high sec miners, being buffed by needing a pos for compression or having to refine at lower rates to feasibly transport their goods, or accept lower prices selling locally.

these refining changes aren't really a buff to high sec miners, really. in fact, the impact on high sec miners is minimal and doesn't even affect the "mining" part of being a miner.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-03-22 15:38:35 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
high sec miners, being buffed by needing a pos for compression or having to refine at lower rates to feasibly transport their goods, or accept lower prices selling locally.

these refining changes aren't really a buff to high sec miners, really. in fact, the impact on high sec miners is minimal and doesn't even affect the "mining" part of being a miner.


Sounds more like a buff to hisec shenannigans. Hisec mining POSes make more sense now and can be fought over. Either fight because you just want to hassle some miners (always fun) or fight because all the moons are taken and you want a POS of your own in that system.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#37 - 2014-03-22 15:45:46 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
high sec miners, being buffed by needing a pos for compression or having to refine at lower rates to feasibly transport their goods, or accept lower prices selling locally.

these refining changes aren't really a buff to high sec miners, really. in fact, the impact on high sec miners is minimal and doesn't even affect the "mining" part of being a miner.


The compression changes are a massive buff to anyone with a decent stockpile of ice, actually. I'm laughing all the way to the bank (yes, despite being a New Order supporter, I am heavily invested in the ice market as much of my income is from selling pos fuel components).

The major change is incentivizing use of player controlled manufacturing infrastructure. Which is about damn time. It gives people a reason to be in player corps, which improves quality of life for wardec corps. It improves nullsec industry also.

About the only people who don't stand to benefit from this is lowsec, which doesn't get much of anything out of it. So they're in the corner again, which sucks but what else is new?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#38 - 2014-03-22 16:13:15 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
I think you meant Null Sec miners just got a huge buff. High Sec miners have actually had their yield decreased (By 'only' about 3% but when the average profit margin is only 5% or so, 3% is huge relative to profit margins). While Null Sec miners have just had a 17% buff (just after their last buff, and the recent null industry buff also, assuming a decent coalition.)
So a Null Miner can now expect to be earning at least double a high sec miner if my maths is about right.


I have a question regarding your figures specifically your statement that high sec miners only make 5% profit from mining. Are you donating all your ISK to the Caldari cats home otherwise I can't see where you get that percentage? Isn't it true that once you have mined and sold enough ore to pay for your outlay on mining ships & equipment then any further income is largely clear profit?

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Themanfromdalmontee
EVE RADIO ARMY
#39 - 2014-03-22 16:15:58 UTC
Sadly I don't think you understand there change...plus official thread is ---> way
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#40 - 2014-03-22 16:17:01 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
high sec miners, being buffed by needing a pos for compression or having to refine at lower rates to feasibly transport their goods, or accept lower prices selling locally.

these refining changes aren't really a buff to high sec miners, really. in fact, the impact on high sec miners is minimal and doesn't even affect the "mining" part of being a miner.


Sounds more like a buff to hisec shenannigans. Hisec mining POSes make more sense now and can be fought over. Either fight because you just want to hassle some miners (always fun) or fight because all the moons are taken and you want a POS of your own in that system.


The possible increased need for compressed materials is indeed a conflict driver. Suitable moons near all the trade hubs watch out. Blink

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
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