Science & Industry

OK could someone confirm please as my maths aint so great,

Currently I have refining to V and refinery efficiency to IV which means if I have say Veldspar trained to IV I currently get 108.9% (or perfect refine) at a 50% station with standings of 6.67

After the nerf I will only get 69.8% of the minerals back that I refine in the same station, which is actually about 20% LESS than if I had Refining, Efficiency and Ore Skill at zero right now..

I don’t think an implant should be a necessity for getting (not even perfect) refine, I think that if anything if I have Refining, Efficiency and Ore Skill at V I should get perfect refine, after all I cannot train them any more than that.

Bear in mind, the quantities of minerals in Ores have been increased by around 38%. It balances out at full skill + implant.

This. Currently if you put in half the effort, you get max refine and that's that.
Going forward you'll need to put in all the effort, like the other professions, to achieve the same level of results. This means that reprocessing is an actual trade rather than an extra week of training on the side for another profession.

It's easy to get caught up thinking "*gasp* I'll not reach 100%!", but then noone will. It's been left with a level of wastage, which make sense from a realism point of view, and leaves scope for further improvements (drugs to boost reprocessing for example could become a thing).

1. Waah. Cry more.
2. Null sec takes effort and isk constantly to keep it functioning. Why should it be barely on par with high sec, where everything is free? People should be encourages to push out into riskier areas, and if you don't want the risk, that's fine, but don't cry when you don't get the rewards.
3. That said, Null takes a big hit too, because reprocessing of modules is going to be so wasteful. Rat loot will now be halved in value. On top of that, ore compression will now be a thing in high sec allowing you to compress your ore pre-refine and sell it to null players for a shade over null refine values which in fact improves mining and removes the need for reprocessing the ore yourself.

Yes.

However, 100% refine will not be possible after the change. At maxed out refine you'll get about the same as you do now.

You won't have 100% refining efficiency. With max skills and an implant you'll have at best around 72% (check dev blog for exact figures) which means you'll be getting pretty much the same minerals as before (less if you don't have max skills and an implant, more if you refine at a POS or outpost)

I did note the increase in yield, all that will do is fill the hold of your mining ships faster wouldn't it?

At the moment my skills are

Refining V
Refining Efficiency IV
Most Ores IV

So currently in high sec, in my 50% station with 6.67 standings, I get 100% refine, lovely, love it. Fair enough it is unbalanced and they want me to train some more in order to “earn” the right to perfect refine, only ill never get it.

I undock a retriever and fill 27000m3 of ore, post nerf it will just take less time to fill (yield bonus), I take it back to that station and currently I get 0% waste, post nerf my wastage is 27.6% with those same skills all trained to V because they only give me 72.4 refine, and this is even if I have made that commitment and trained everything to V

So I’ve put in the effort, I’ve trained everything to V and am rewarded with a refine rate that is less than if I have everything trained to I currently. I shouldn't have to use an implant to bump that up a little further.

Ill admit I know nothing about compression, and I may have this wrong, but even if I have compressed ore, I still have to refine it don’t I, and id still be subject to getting only 72.4% out of it. It’s just the ore doesn’t take up as much space to take it to the place you want to refine it?

you didn't read it then.

It's an increased yield on /refining/.

So that 72%? it's equal to the 100% you were getting before.

Yes, the max is 72.4 %
No, the increase in yield has nothing whatsoever to do with mining
The increase in yield is an increase in the amount of minerals you could get from a batch of ore with 100% refining.

Now, since no one's going to have 100%, those two mostly cancel out leaving miners mining exactly the same ore they were beforehand and refiners getting almost the same minerals out of the ore when they refine (subject to their skills, implants and where they are refining)

Simply put, imagine if every time you bought a carton of eggs, you had to throw one out due to it being rotten.

Then, some of the chickens get sick, decreasing the quality of eggs even more.

The BAD news is, every carton of eggs you buy you have to throw out TWO eggs now. The good news is, the egg companies started selling eggs in cartons of 13 instead of cartons of 12 to compensate.


Either way, you're bringing home 11 good eggs, even if you're throwing more away every time you buy a carton.


It's the same with this change. You get more waste, but you have more to waste so it works out the same as before.

I really hope that is true.


For all the high sec miners out there, this is very important: The people who buy most of the minerals today, that is capital manufacturers and high volume producers, will want to buy ORE after the patch. They are not going to want to buy raw minerals.

So now refining will be a separate profession from mining. It will require long training of skills. But as a miner, you don't need to refine anymore, because many producers are going to be competing to get your ore.


Now, as a producer, I need to get better refining on one of MY alts.