Science & Industry

Duplicate of topic still on S&I page one: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=327705&find=unread

Some simple math here, why I disagree
http://bp.kiwi.frubar.net/?q=stabber&techlevel=true&id=&me=10&pe=5&runs=1&cme=100&cpe=100&enc=5&dc1=5&dc2=5&decryptor=0&meta=0&buildtime=1&copytime=1&invtime=1

Picked a random BPC 'Stabbers'

10ME 5PE

302 produced Station: 3w 6d 23h 6m 40s
403 POS production: POS: 3w 6d 23h 40m 0s

x13 for a fully loaded Caldari POS. totals

3,926 Station
5,239 POS

14400 fuel blocks, appx 180m in fuel costs. Lets just make up some numbers.

9.8 vs 10.4 costs to profit, assuming no costs for freight, or price swings

38,474,800,000 - 40,830,400,000 - 2,355,600,000
51,342,200,000 - 54,485,600,000 -- 3,143,400,000

787,800,000 difference - fuel = 607,800,000
250m for tower,
72m MSAA * 13
so just over 1bn in capital investment.

And thats at least two characters, for literally the entire month. PI makes that much, and for a lot less work, and less risk. Add to that the capital investment of over 1bn to get this running, and shutting it down at the first sign of trouble, and it makes no sense. Assume you'd need a freighter to move all that, or another bn, instead of empire guy who just pays 4m to get red frog on it.

Now if that speed bonus was a mineral bonus, maybe. If empire turned that 2.3bn profit into 1bn with station costs, then maybe your 2bn investment makes more sense, when you're making 2x on your ROI.

Now I know lots of people do that, but more don't. Also, as a bonus, more POS, and more people running against them means more interaction. NPC strations are solo.

I'm not giving the HTFU argument, but the more opportunity to give players the ability to interact with other placers, the better. God knows how many people are playing a 15 dollars a month solo activity as it is, and quitting after 5 months

Empire subsidy.
You can repair ship and manufacture for free in Alliance owned station/outpost. That is also not fair :P

Not talking about shipping them FROM nul, talking about building for use IN nul.

also, yes, the push would be for tons of towers in 05 space. Good, it will fill up fast, then conflict.

And as for the stabber reference, was just a random one picked. The point is, for a lot of people, the simplicity of manufacture/courier contract/sell most likely outweights the hassle of creating a POS, and making goods out of there. Especially when you have to haul them to the nearest station (at least)

Improving industry in Null would require a slew of changes. Including mining. Because if you're going to have to ship minerals in, then you may as well ship the required goods on demand for a /slightly/ higher cost.


Improving mining in Null would require changes to yield. Ideally something which reduces the time which you can do something for, to prevent someone from /just/ mining for 12 hours. The yield change isn't so much to improve the isk/hr, but to reduce the hour requirement, thus adjusting the risk in comparison to mining in highsec.

not really, it's just making people who gun compress do it differently, and train more. this won't stop people from mining in botfleets, just make it less profitable

I was just going to post that link.

I fully support increasing the production costs of NPC station lines by 100 fold. Running the numbers, this would create a very nice isk sink in the game, make POS production more profitable than station production, and wouldn't hurt industrialists all that much as they can pass the cost onto the consumer, who will pay ~10% more for their modules and ships.

Super/cap/t3 production says hi.

This would be nothing but a nerf to high sec industry, It would force production into a POS, since you'd not be able to compete with the manufacture price of a POS user. Many items would simply die out since nobody would bother to produce them as their profit margins are slim as is. Adding hundreds of millions in costs per month would mean many of them would never be profitable.

Then those that do want a POS would have to grind standing, find an empty moon in a reasonable location (good luck) avoid getting wardecced by one of the many wardec corps out there (who would now see this as a way to ransom a POS or the space for one, so good luck) just to be able to compete.

I'm a null sec player, so I would love to see null sec industry given a boost, but not by destroying high sec industry. I think the better choice would be to push the costs up to make them slightly more noticeable (nowhere near 100x), and increase the time factor (maybe to 1.25, 1.5) so they can compete on price/item but not as well on isk/hour with low and null stations.

It is a sandbox. Yours is different to theirs. Does not make it the only sandbox. For them that might actually be the horror because their sandbox one more time is different to yours.
I will never understand why this concept is so hard to understand to so many people.