Wormholes

Inclined to agree. They need an overhaul but not because of the fits, but because of the uselessness of much of the subsystems and the issues of being a "modular ship" but getting stuck with not being able to change the rigs on these "modular ships".

There are others issues, but I see those as probably the most pressing.

I don't think T3 need to much of a nerf at all.

Some of my thoughts

Nerfing T3's will have some effect on wormhole income especially C1 to C4.

Any comparison of performance should be with similar modules, comparing a T2 fit Demios to a 5B prot is just stupid. As Arkon Olacar said, some people just haven't a clue what T3 can do.



T2 recons with the exception of Caldari get two types of ewar, T3 only get one and in the case of a Tengu you need 2 subsystems to get range and strength on ewar.

T3 logi while it can rep more is literally never used (possible exception being alliance tournament and black ops) due to its range.

T3 do seem to do alot better than T2 Hacs.

In all cases the T3 has more tank, costs alot more (normally double) and comes with a skill point loss if you die.

I really don't want to see the tank nerfed to much at all, as this allows smaller groups with cap support to fight off larger groups with less caps. Triage reps are fast but you still need some buffer to get them to land in time. Maybe the dps lowered a small amount to lower the gap between T2 hac's and T3.

What I would really like to see is subsystems that are never used be changed in some way to be more useful.

A consistent and persistent problem that surrounds T3 ships is the fact that several subsystems have little to no use.

Do they need a nerf? No.

T3's should be able to perform on par with specialised T2 cruiser hulls. The idea should be that the subsystems can be configured to fill those roles on the fly. Now that we can actually change subsystems at a PoS, it makes sense to adjust T3's to live up to those standards.

Right now W-space meta dictates armor tanked brawlers that are only further enhanced by pirate implants leading to a great disparity between armor tanking and shield tanking. The "useless" T3 subystems need to be brought up into line with the "useful" ones. Every subsystem should have a viable PvP and PvE application. Rigs should be utterly removed from T3's and bonuses "baked in" to the hulls and subsystems. Rigs totally break the utility of swapping subsystems currently.

I would like to paraphrase Two step, "Don't throw the Legion out with the Tengu bathwater".

On a side note: W-space needs another "product" to market to the rest of New Eden besides T3's and T3 subs.

I wouldn't use a Muninn or a Loki pretending to be a Muninn.
Tornados are better snipers than both of those.

I've been thinking about, the opinion, that HACs should have a better buffer tank than a T3 and i asked myself :What if the active rep subsystems were buffed some much, that an active rep T3 became the standard/meta?

The buffer Tech 3 ships that most of us currently fly, would see their ehp reduced from around 120k to around 60k ehp in line with HACs. The HAC would become the best in its role due to the microwarp drive sig bonus. However, active tanked Tech three ships could be buffed to have the self reping power (without needing any capacitor mods) equivalent to two Guardians.

The way i think about it, the only way you can break the tank of a buffer ship is with damage but active tanked ships need their cap and their tank to survive. We would most likely see more small gang fights because everyone would be ready to fight without the necessity for 3 guardians in fleet logistics all the time.

I think fleet doctrines, ship choice and the actual fights could become so much more interesting and diverse if things where like this.

Only 2 likes for my previous post guys?

I honestly thought i had cracked the case with this one! Am i missing something? Would an active tank T3 meta be bad for some reason?

The rep power could be equivalent to more or less than two guardians really. Two would just be the minimum requirement for this to work IMO. The addition of warfare links could boost the rep power to 3 or 4 and some system effects and drugs boost these setups even further.

So the active rep setups would become popular partly due the this massive buff to the active subsystem, and partly due to the high hitpoint subsystem nerf. A combination of buffer HACs and T3s would still be used for the big fleet fights but for the day to day skirmished, active tanks would rule.

As someone who runs active armour reps quite a lot and has ran an Active Prot the whole one time, yah it'd be cool to see them more. I've dropped mine in once and it completely threw off the legion loki and prot I was fighting. No one died out of it as I had to bail as I ran out of boosters.

The thing with all active reps, regardless of how they are created is that they're binary, they work all the time till they don't and then you die. There's no grey area where you're burning buffer while hoping for your logi to land reps on you. You're perfectly fine and completely safe then the dps tips just a bit too much and you fold into yourself. As such they're a bit limited in larger fleet engagements due to the higher dps that's around from having more people.

The prot is also a bit harder to make work compared to the new OMGFUN-mobile that is the Deimos. Due to the six gun config on the prot you burn cap quite a bit more and as such can't hold up for long periods under a single cap booster and that's before battlefield shenanigans like MWD'ing, overheating and neuts. Dual cap booster, it sits quite a lot nicer but that means dropping part of the holy trinity, web/scram/mwd which the prot REALLY needs all of to do it's thing. Having said that, it does to a ton more damage, can OH for longer, can rep harder and in general freaks people out as who the f**k local reps a prot...

Yes most roam with 3 guardians when they have around 7-10 other T3's and when a fleet of close to 20 random T3's the magic numbers we seem to face of late is 10... yes 10.

So how is in not OP if you then have those 10 guardians replaced with other T3's (So now at 30) that can all rep like 2 guardians EACH?

I must be bad at math or am missing something to how that would at all be balanced.

For some vague numbers for you two to fight over, my dual rep prot is about the same as a single triple rep guardian in raw hp/s repped. around the 230hp/s mark give or take random things. That's around a 900 dps tank as is. Doubling that would put the Prot up there above all the other local armour reppers bar the Kronos in Bastion.