EVE General Discussion

JENN ASIDE CREW REPRESENT PEACE OUT DUDES

The paladin could burn it all in a big steam punk furnace that drives a wibbly wobbly thing to recharge its Cap of course :D

I dont understand reducing the efficiency of non-ore/ice refinement, and then hardcapping it at an efficiency below that of ice/ore.

It is correct that a mission/plex/ratter is better off blitzing and completing more missions/plexs/rats rather than wasting time on collecting low value loot that a) has little market value for function b) has little market value for refinement.

But this is not an argument for the change. It just evidences that it was crap to begin with, and will be even more crap after this change. Thiis change just makes that part of mission/plex/ratting even more unprofitable.

Result? This stuff will just be left on wrecks and never make it to market, either as is for their fitting function or refinement, nor as minerals refined by the player themselves. Meaning less minerals to market, and less modules.

Essentially amounts to making an unprofitable element, even less profitable.
Nor does it incentivise player skilling into non-ore/ice refinement, because the efficiency is lower, and owing to the change, very little of the "trash" modules will ever be brought off the wrecks and to market.

I did not need nerfing. It was nerfed and crap to begin with. What is the justification for doing so?

I don't play missions nor I care at all about modules.

However I have to notice how EvE now stands out as THE MMO (and RPG game in general) where when you find loot you go "oh noes, worthless junk" instead of clicking a loot button with expectation of some nice surprise.
That's imo is quite dumb, MMO gaming design speaking.

The point is that the entire setup favors all goods travelling through jita as is, since minerals needed to be collected together to be compressed. This also seriously hammers mining in nullsec, because most compression is done with 425mms, which have the whole basket, which means that nullsec mins were being shipped to highsec where I'd buy them and ship them back if I wanted to build something here. The only mins available here is usually the normal excess you'd expect from people importing the railgun basket, and all miners here export to jita.

I'd also soon as possible prefer that extra mats got taken off blueprints, because they badly scale material research on BPOs.

CCP needed to make all of these changes together. Later they can choose to retune the number of drops in missions if they feel its warranted, but I bet that long term it isn't at all required, because its a portion of a portion of the income (ie meta 4s probably outweigh reproc in most peoples loot piles).

The higher efficiency on ice/ore, coupled with the compression improvement, multiplied by the naturalisation of the units of ore required for refinement (ie: generally smaller unit requirements), already in and of themselves make transporting compressed ore for refinement on POS better than 425mmproduction/reprocessing.

Furthermore if there where specific modules that where outputting too much minerals, then those are the modules which need adjusting, not a blanket and blind nerf to the mineral value of ALL modules in the entire game (as a function of a lower and hardcapped refinement efficiency).

Every single non-ice/ore refinable item in the game takes a nerf to its value, from a purely mineral value perspective, from this change.

I understand your point, but it is not relevant to the one I am making. I believe you are not missing my point deliberately, but there seems to be something here than I am not successfully communicating to you.

I understand the "problem" presented by the workaround solution for transporting minerals in the form of modules.
The changes to ice/ore efficiency at POS, the compression changes, the naturalisation of unit quantity for refinement, all already correct for this and allow the direct transportation of large amounts of ore across secs with the added incentive that you get an even better refinement yield for them at your own station, than you do at high-sec NPC stations.

All of these are fine and necessary changes to fix various inconsistencies.

BUT.

Do you understand that this net nerfs the mineral (and hence market value) of all non-ice/ore refinables in the entire game?
Do you understand that this means there is even less profit and incentive in bringing "trash" modules to market?

The nerfing of non-ice/ore refinement efficiency to a level significantly BELOW that of ice/ore refinement, affects the entire module market, and is not a necessary change to enable the free flow of ore/minerals as was already corrected for by the specific ore/ice/compression/refinement changes.

This is a superfluous change, the pragmatic result of which is that all module mineral value is nerfed across the board, and directly de-incentivises bringing in "trash" modules which have no reasonable function for fitting (and hence value) for their mineral value, because that too has now dropped.

its not killed. If I looted a railgun worth 1m, it will be worth 800k (or whatever) still, and the price will likely drift up a little bit anyway. Salvage is still salvage, and meta4s are still meta4s, LP is still LP and bounties are still bounty, and importantly for looters, tags are still tags (tag looting was always the most lucrative looting strategy - the missions I looted always were tag missions).

I doubt it, there are not many sought after modules that have their worth without mineral value taken into account.
So your gun will now be 550k , not 1m, if you are blitzing or fw it will not change much, but low mission runners will loose a big chunk of money.
And mineral compression still gone.

@ Malcanis: This is not the time or place for hyperbolic and misplaced sarcasm, though I know you love that.

This kind of aggressive posting just lends itself to the impression that you have a vested interest in destroying discussion on this topic, or that you are having a bad day and looking to vent on someone. Both of which I would hope are not the case.

We will see, as i said i doubt it.

However you are still shy of answering my question whether this may not be fixed more gently with good pos and nullsec refining, or do you think "Well, it will not destroy it completely" is a answer?

Because all we have established is that the nerf may not be 45%, but just 10-20% which i no way explains why it was needed.

EDIT: and by "not gone, just lossy" can be applied to null industry, "not impossible, just harder", doublestandards much? :)