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Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#241 - 2011-11-30 04:10:04 UTC
Numbers don't look great but now I'm getting used to it, it is not as bad as I thought it would be..... if that makes sense.

Fair play Punkturis, you did your best but were always up against a hiding changing something so fundamental in game without making it optional (for the more conservative, change resistant bunch...like me!)

I think CCP should give it a couple of weeks at least and see before doing anything knee-jerk.
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#242 - 2011-11-30 04:11:20 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:

There's an option in the overview settings to use small font Blink



Just a request. Next expansion, can you please add a "Blind Old Guy Giant Letters Visible From Space" option on the overview settings?

My eyes suck, but I play spaceships anyway.

I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.
Rakamy
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#243 - 2011-11-30 04:13:05 UTC
CCP Navigator wrote:
It is currently not possible to toggle between the new font and the old one. While we appreciate that this is something a lot of people are asking for, it simply cannot be done in the current font rendering system.



Umm perhaps it's time to change the rendering system then.....it seems to me that is what is causing most of the problems.

And yes I would like the old font back my self. The new one scales ter-bad on 90% you cant read anything on the overview and menus and at 100% it takes up way to much space. possibly a 95% scale setting would be a good compromise.
Crexa
Ion Industrials
#244 - 2011-11-30 04:13:06 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
flank steak wrote:
wow you have known this was coming out for about a month and you choose today to complain about it? Seriously forum warriors?


Agreed. People have had the option to see the new font for a long time. They asked for feedback before it went live for a reason.


QFT. From both of you.



And they recieved MULTIPLE responses to the quality or lack there of. At least from me they did.

"F=ma, so obviously they're putting mouths against arses to produce a force." "...its breakfast time and i am very hungry. may i have some of your paint chips?"
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#245 - 2011-11-30 04:14:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Tippia, saying you never un-dock is no ad hominem,
Yes it is.
You're making the implicit argument “you have no idea what is needed on screen because you don't undock, so your view doesn't count” — that's as classic an ad hominem as it gets. You're also making some pretty silly assumptions to base this fallacy on.
Quote:
For example. How am i to warp to a wreck in a battle when i can barely see the wreck?
Wrecks are still easily identified at 90 percent scaling.
Quote:
Your answer is to use 100 percent scaling
Look. You really need to stop making things up. It does not help you in any way. Roll
No, that is not my answer.

For the record, I undocked and went to the closest belt to give a picture of what I play at: 2560×1440 @ 27"; 90 percent scaling; 10pt font; small overview. Maybe I'm not seeing these issues because I have plenty of real-estate to play with, and the new options give me even more. The overview is small but readable (thanks to a decent enough screen surface area) and provides plenty of room for the information I need.
Mutie DaPig
Doomheim
#246 - 2011-11-30 04:22:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutie DaPig
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
Numbers don't look great but now I'm getting used to it, it is not as bad as I thought it would be..... if that makes sense.

Fair play Punkturis, you did your best but were always up against a hiding changing something so fundamental in game without making it optional (for the more conservative, change resistant bunch...like me!)

I think CCP should give it a couple of weeks at least and see before doing anything knee-jerk.



Sorry but no: It's fundamentally wrong. Change it now. My retinas are burning out. It's cack. Any moment now Tippia may well undock anytime soon to Fisk us all senseless with her not undocking games/not now not ever advanced playstyle, but till then please realise that perhapsat least for you everything may be fab and all, but for many more of us out there (judging by the crapton of Team America Signals in the forums) things are NOt All RigHTz n stUFfz .

Have a sCone.

In first
Quote:
For the record, I undocked and went to the closest belt to give a picture of what I play at: 2560×1440 @ 27"; 90 percent scaling; 10pt font; small overview. Maybe I'm not seeing these issues because I have plenty of real-estate to play with, and the new options give me even more. The overview is small but readable (thanks to a decent enough screen surface area) and provides plenty of room for the information I need. Nigel then undid my scented saffron pantalones and greedily ate my panecotta; which I considered to be quite rude .. well to begin with


Jeez -- you can't listen to other people at all can you. 2560×1440 @ 27" and you can't understand what normal lower life mortals use and are whingeing on about??
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#247 - 2011-11-30 04:27:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Tippia wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Tippia, saying you never un-dock is no ad hominem,
Yes it is.
You're making the implicit argument “you have no idea what is needed on screen because you don't undock, so your view doesn't count” — that's as classic an ad hominem as it gets. You're also making some pretty silly assumptions to base this fallacy on.


Incorrect, classic ad hominem is, "you smell like poo, so you dont have a clue about fonts". Giving a reason, however true or untrue that is in context with the argument and if true would be a legitimate reason for me doubting your position on the font is not ad hominem. Its either just correct or incorrect.

Tippia wrote:
Wrecks are still easily identified at 90 percent scaling.


As for wrecks, not as easily pinpointed or clicked on as they were. Now how about containers. They are much less noticeable at 90% and their white circle is at best grey.

Tippia wrote:
For the record, I undocked and went to the closest belt to give a picture of : 2560×1440 @ 27"; 90 percent scaling; 10pt font; small overview. Maybe I'm not seeing these issues because I have plenty of real-estate to play with, and the new options give me even more. The overview is small but readable (thanks to a decent enough screen surface area) and provides plenty of room for the information I need.


As for your real estate, possibly. I have two 1080p 120hz screen to run two accounts. Not only would it be ridiculous to suggest that i need a higher resolution screen to play eve with the new font, i also have a lot more on my screen for example a chat stack separate to my local with a dozen or so intel and private channels, scanner, log, selected items, fleet window etc. All of which i had no problem fitting all this on screen with the old font and was perfectly legible. New font is a compromise between legibility and space. Unacceptable for anyone who makes use of a lot of their screen for data.

You know, id be happy(er) if they just made it so the icons and various other things didnt scale with the UI.
Id be even happier with a decent looking font like the old one.
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
#248 - 2011-11-30 04:29:47 UTC
Poor CCP. They get yelled at for old font. They change it, allowing player feedback every step of the way. Font goes live. They get yelled at again.

Seriously people ?
William Loire
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#249 - 2011-11-30 04:31:56 UTC  |  Edited by: William Loire
I don't want to be "that guy" but the new font is ****. It's nothing that would make me stop playing and the expansion on the whole is awesome but the font is just terrible, hopefully CCP Punktaris doesn't take that the wrong way.

The readability and usability is way up but the MS DOS style completely clashes with the EVE style, it completely breaks the sci fi immersion in order to fix an "issue" that wasn't really an issue. I honestly don;t see why the original EVE font coulden't have been modified for readability.

edit: Sorry I play both on a 17" laptop and a 43" 1080p screen for the desktop. Both will all settings on high.

Seriously the new font is almost Comic Sans.

e2.: I also apologize that I didn't offer up this review before the font went live. Maybe I'l start playing on Sisi more in the future.
Psychophantic
#250 - 2011-11-30 04:36:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Psychophantic
Zoe Alarhun wrote:
Poor CCP. They get yelled at for old font. They change it, allowing player feedback every step of the way. Font goes live. They get yelled at again.

Seriously people ?


A month ago they had to explain that there wouldn't be an option to use the old font.

Alarms should have been ringing.

Right now I should be messing around with my new tornado and exploring the new nebulae while seeing how long I can make my engine trails.

Instead I'm spending hours messing around with my UI and searching the net for clientside font hacks while keeping an eye out for any dev response.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#251 - 2011-11-30 04:39:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Incorrect, classic ad hominem is, "you smell like poo, so you dont have a clue about fonts".
That's another version, yes, but what you insinuated is still an ad hominem — you are arguing based on the person, not the case.
Quote:
As for wrecks, not as easily pinpointed or clicked on as they were. Now how about containers. They are much less noticeable at 90% and their white circle is at best grey.
Containers are just as easily noticeable. They're a shape that differs enough from other shapes to quickly see that, yes, that is indeed a can (or not).
Quote:
As for your real estate, possibly. […] All of which i had no problem fitting all this on screen with the old font and was perfectly legible. New font is a compromise between legibility and space. Unacceptable for anyone who makes use of a lot of their screen for data.
…and this is where our opinions divert: I don't see the compromise. I find it just as legible (even more so due to the improved font) and you have far more options available to customise what you need.
Quote:
You know, id be happy(er) if they just made it so the icons and various other things didnt scale with the UI.
Id be even happier with a decent looking font like the old one.
And that's probably a fair point: what's needed is some clearer (and possibly finer) granularity in terms of what affects what. Some UI elements scale with the font size; some do not, but are scaled by the UI scale. Maybe they should go with one or the other, but not both.
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#252 - 2011-11-30 04:44:09 UTC
Nalia White wrote:
pls add at least an option to choose or if that's not possible change it back, ty.

you don't see decimals at all and everything looks like ms-dos 20 years ago...


revert the font. see the light.

WE TOLD YOU THIS IN TEST FEEDBACK

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Vera Godspiel
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
#253 - 2011-11-30 04:47:09 UTC
Mutie DaPig wrote:


Jeez -- you can't listen to other people at all can you. 2560×1440 @ 27" and you can't understand what normal lower life mortals use and are whingeing on about??



2560x1440@27"...... sounds like a Mac to me.

Since when do Mac users understand life for us lower life mortals that use those terribly underpriced PC's.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#254 - 2011-11-30 04:50:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Theres only one version of ad hominem, something else would have a different name. I dont make the rules tip.

As for cans, Im now certain that you have never even been in a medium or even small battle. Things like cans and wrecks get obscured pretty quickly. You often end up having to hold your mouse over several blobs of enemies to get the vertical list to see the can or wreck if it isnt broadcast just because they are hard to find. And this takes time.

A can that isnt scaled is hard enough to find like this, one that is grey and faded out and 10% smaller is just by definition even harder to find and will mean more often waiting for vertical stacks to appear and increased chance of not seeing the grey circle in amongst the action.

As for customisation? I can either have a large font that takes up lots of space that would otherwise be useful to display more information. Or i can have the font scaled down to look better and give me useful space back like more overview rows but at the cost of clarity on icons in space and overview. Not sure how you cant see this is a compromise or take my word for it that this was not a problem at all with the old font.
I can only guess that you are somewhere on the autistic scale since what i and others here describe is quite simple. Again that is NOT an ad hom. It might be an armchair diagnosis but if it were true it would explain your posts here which is what sets it aside from ad hominem.

Here is my old overview that i tailored and loved so well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79Xj_SqQo0Q
Here endeth the lesson.
Vachir Khan
Rugged Ruff and Ready
#255 - 2011-11-30 05:10:10 UTC
Zoe Alarhun wrote:
Poor CCP. They get yelled at for old font. They change it, allowing player feedback every step of the way. Font goes live. They get yelled at again.

Seriously people ?


Which part of "there is a huge thread on the test server forum about people not liking the font, but CCP couldn't be bothered to react to it" didn't you get?
Kasha Belle
On your Left you will See Mars
#256 - 2011-11-30 05:11:23 UTC
It's a mess I'm afraid. I too solely focused on this scaling clusterbork when I should've been checking out all the new glittery baubles. Sigh. This font looks like the lettering for birthday cards - Comic Sans is indeed the basis for it; or at least it's inspiration. Not a good start sorry. Not SciFi at all.

This though gets me:
Quote:
It's readable.......
. OFC it's readable -it's bigger with wider spacing. Stupid. It also takes up more space. Less screen to see spaceships. Grrrrr.......

I'm sure CCP will fix this. What a shame.
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#257 - 2011-11-30 05:12:06 UTC
flank steak wrote:
wow you have known this was coming out for about a month and you choose today to complain about it? Seriously forum warriors?



we've been complaining about it.

Any complaints about it were MOVED to the Test Server Feedback Forums.

You only hear about it on GD now, because they won't move them there because the test is over!

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#258 - 2011-11-30 05:12:16 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Theres only one version of ad hominem, something else would have a different name.
…and that version is arguing the person, not the case, which is what you did. The personal trait does not have to be irrelevant for it to be an ad hominem, because you're still arguing the person. You can stop trying to cover it up — it's just one more of your many fallacies, so get over it (or better yet, stop using them).
Quote:
As for cans, Im now certain that you have never even been in a medium or even small battle.
…and you are still making this silly assumptions that do not further your point. Personally, I was talking about the overview and the even smaller size you can squeeze out of it and still have it legible. But no, the bracket list is no different. Or, rather, what made them difficult before was the background, and that is still as true (or false) and context-dependent as ever. If anything, it's probably easier now, unless you're in one of the core highsec systems…
Quote:
As for customisation? I can either have a large font that takes up lots of space that would otherwise be useful to display more information. Or i can have the font scaled down to look better and give me useful space back like more overview rows but at the cost of clarity on icons in space and overview. Not sure how you cant see this is a compromise or take my word for it that this was not a problem at all with the old font.
Because the old font had severe clarity issues as well — that's why it was replaced — and because the clarity of the overview and bracket icons isn't nearly as harsh as you make it out to be. So no, I don't see the compromise because that would mean something is being given up. Instead, we are given options that let us fit the display of text for a vastly larger array of situations.
Quote:
Here is my old overview that i tailored and loved so well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79Xj_SqQo0Q
…and I don't see anything about it that can't be maintained with the new font and scaling.
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#259 - 2011-11-30 05:12:27 UTC
Dinta Zembo wrote:
Blnukem 192 wrote:
this new font is terrible...


^

Don't care if possible or not I want an option for the old font. This hurts my eyes. Evil


AMEN

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#260 - 2011-11-30 05:13:39 UTC
CCP Navigator wrote:
It is currently not possible to toggle between the new font and the old one. While we appreciate that this is something a lot of people are asking for, it simply cannot be done in the current font rendering system.



THERE IS NO CAN'T -- THERE IS ONLY WON'T


If you won't fix the problem -- maybe we won't resub.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde