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High sec Mission runners just got completely screwed by CCP

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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#81 - 2014-03-20 20:45:12 UTC
Xeronikus wrote:
Well, this solves all the issues I pointed out for all the other 99.X% of the players who are interested in null space but dislike the current conditions I mentioned earlier.

How much of it is real knowledge and how much of it is just assumption though?

Not you specifically, just all of us. It's often written on here that gaining sov for a small group is near impossible, but when was the last time one actually tried after looking for a suitable location?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#82 - 2014-03-20 20:50:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Batelle wrote:
gee i dunno, how about marauders?
exploration changes
deployables (yes the MTU and the MD are great, i use them both extensively in hisec, dunno what your issue is)
ore/ice distribution changes
a huge amount of ship rebalancing, making many t1 battleships viable and rebalancing hacs etc.
new ships
lots of new soe lvl 4's in hisec
changes to factory manager roles and personal hangar array
warp speed changes
graphics changes

• Exploration… the simplified scanning and scatter container game that nerfed exploration income
• Ore/ice… players have been so happy with these, particularly ice fields
• Rebalancing… in favor of PvP
• SoE L4s… so we could all pay more for SoE ships while others get them for cost
• New ships… like the Nestor? lol
• Warp speed… L4 mission nerf
• Graphics changes… how does this benefit high-sec?
• Marauders… would you like fries with that? See warp speed changes...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Xeronikus
MARE Technology Department
#83 - 2014-03-20 20:57:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Xeronikus
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Xeronikus wrote:
Well, this solves all the issues I pointed out for all the other 99.X% of the players who are interested in null space but dislike the current conditions I mentioned earlier.

How much of it is real knowledge and how much of it is just assumption though?

Not you specifically, just all of us. It's often written on here that gaining sov for a small group is near impossible, but when was the last time one actually tried after looking for a suitable location?



Last time I was in null, the "group" wasn't even that small. Held sov for a few months tops (can't remember exactly anymore) Then our neighbors decided they don't like us anymore and bombed us out in a few days time. Faced with such brittle options, I can see why no one really tries anymore.
Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#84 - 2014-03-20 21:00:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Batelle wrote:
If you lower reprocessing efficiency, then supplied modules will have their price get depressed as is natural, rather than having high-efficiency reprocessing serve as a relatively high ceiling on the value of modules.

But this drops the value of those items twice. Not only will they not be worth picking up for reprocessing, they will also not be worthwhile to pick up for selling directly. They become trash that never even makes it to market, but remains on wrecks.

Furthermore as less of these make it to market, either as modules or reprocessed minerals, that raises the profits of miners directly as the now only suppliers of minerals to the market.


If you don't pick a module up for reprocessing, then thats a result of it being worth less. Its not a separate factor that reduces the value of the module further. Case 1) the module is now worth 50% less (or whatever) because it refines for less. There is still a hard floor on the value of the module because it can still be refined. Case 2) the price stays above this hard floor because the module is now more valuable to use on your ship than to refine because refining is less efficient, and less are available on the market because of less looting, and because meta modules are not manufactured. (they're also used for invention).

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Batelle wrote:
The fact that this reduces income of loot is a byproduct, and its not entirely a negative one. Neither is it particularly important. Its up to players for their behavior to change to reflect changing reality. I see this as a net positive.


It is a negative one. Its significance has yet to be gauged depending on how much loot will instead be left in space rather than brought into market to be sold as modules or reprocessed minerals.

Yes, it is up to players up to adapt to changing reality. But this is not a reality yet, and all these changes are an artificial change to that environment, not one that is evolved from or a result of player actions.

I dont understand the need to potentially completely remove "trash" modules from being brought to market or reprocessed.


Well, plenty of people actually use "trash" modules, because they're useful. Their value is already above mineral value. If less people loot, less of these will be collected, and their value will get even higher. As for everything else, it will still have value, just less value. Its not like I'm going to stop looting smartbombs because they have less value. This will affect the calculus of "to loot or not to loot" but this calculus changes all the time. Introduction of salvage, tractor beam destroyers, the noctis, salvage drones, marauders, meta0 loot removal, marauders 2.0, SOE LP in hisec, nerfing drone region compounds, mobile tractor units, rubicon marauders. All of these change the calculus. All of these changes were implemented by CCP, and are just as "artificial" as anything else. IMO if anything is artificial, its the ability to turn finished goods back into raw materials at near perfect efficiency.

Quote:

Iirc somewhere in the blog it tries to sell this as "an incentive for high-sec players to take on the role of reprocessors", but this will not happen with modules, because the efficiency has been nerfed into the ground on modules that already had very little value to begin with, either in function or as their component minerals.

You're misunderstanding. The blog is referring to the fact that everyone and their mom has a character capable of perfect refines, due to the fact that the base rate of the station is additive in the refining formula, and that because of this, and implants, you don't even need level 5 skills to get perfect refines. By making perfect refines harder, they're raising the bar to give real competetive advantage to players with high skills/investment in this area. Currently a lot of those skills are pointless.

Also, its wrongheaded to think that an across-the-board adjustment to reprocessing will make scrap reprocessing pointless. There will still be a ton of stuff to

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#85 - 2014-03-20 21:02:34 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:

• Exploration… the simplified scanning and scatter container game that nerfed exploration income
• Ore/ice… players have been so happy with these, particularly ice fields
• Rebalancing… in favor of PvP
• SoE L4s… so we could all pay more for SoE ships while others get them for cost
• New ships… like the Nestor? lol
• Warp speed… L4 mission nerf
• Graphics changes… how does this benefit high-sec?
• Marauders… would you like fries with that? See warp speed changes...


*Exploration... To get the best income out of it you must take more risk and leave high sec.
* Ore/ice changes... Miners are earning more than ever before
* Rebalancing... Almost every ship is now viable as opposed to the handful before the changes
* SoE level 4s... Be greatful they are in high sec at all, they are the only pirate faction like this.
* Nestor... A solid ship with a high pricetag, most likely to drop in price over the next six months.
* Warp speed changes... Battleships can infact now warp faster than they used to thanks to these changes.
* Graphics.. how did this impact any area of space?
* Marauders... Even faster than BS, two slot tank for missions, immune to Ewar, can take on 40 man gangs solo and kill them all.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#86 - 2014-03-20 21:05:22 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Just to point out, Chribba held sov solo for a rather long time.

Lol
You're going to point to the single most appreciated person in the game as an example of a small group being able to make it in Null? He kept his property as long as he wasn't a threat to anyone and right up until he became entertainment. So much for that.
Lol

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#87 - 2014-03-20 21:08:15 UTC
Xeronikus wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

CCP need to make null worth fighting for first.


I don't know but it appears to me you guys are fighting for your space in null quite extensively. Or are you telling me you're just doing it out of pity for the poor null space and actually need to run high-sec missions to pay for your expenses in null?


As has been said, lots of null players have high sec alts becuase of how unbalanced high sec is (and will still be after these changes).

And don't mistake the 'Boredom Wars' for 'null is worth fighting for'. The only thing coaltions get out of these wars now is space to rent to high sec groups too young/small to take space for themselves. You can see this by how alliances take a few systems for their members to rat/mine in (knowing they don't need more than that because many of those members will be doing high sec missions/incursions, FW, NPC null missions or wormhole stuff to make isk) and put the rest up for renting.

I was dissapointed after the ESS thing (thankfully my hopes came to fruition and damn near no one uses the thing), but this change is at least a step in the right general direction.
Desivo Delta Visseroff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2014-03-20 21:13:21 UTC
Meh.... I haven't done a mission in about six months maybe longer (it was before the MTU). The last time I did, I fell asleep drunk and exhausted while warping into a Blockade mission. Downtime saved my pod. If I remember correctly, I would just yolo reprocess everything under 10K and then just yolo sell to the highest buy order.

This new POS module sounds awesome though.

I was hunting for sick loot, but all I could get my hands on were 50 corpses[:|]..............[:=d]
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2014-03-20 21:26:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
CCP need to make null worth fighting for first.

null-sec exists since 2003? You say players were fighting in it just for fun? And there was NEVER any reasons to fight for it at all? Shocked

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#90 - 2014-03-20 21:29:08 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
CCP need to make null worth fighting for first.

null-sec exists since 2003? You say players were fighting in it just for fun? And there was NEVER any reasons to fight for it at all? Shocked


Can you think of any reason to invade goon space other than because its goons?
Xeronikus
MARE Technology Department
#91 - 2014-03-20 21:32:46 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
CCP need to make null worth fighting for first.

null-sec exists since 2003? You say players were fighting in it just for fun? And there was NEVER any reasons to fight for it at all? Shocked


Can you think of any reason to invade goon space other than because its goons?


Not invading precisely because it's goons seems like a much more likely scenario to me.
Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#92 - 2014-03-20 21:36:18 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Can you think of any reason to invade goon space other than because its goons?


Deklein's pretty nice if you can multibox ishtars. Way easier than blitzing 4 missions at once at least.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Salvos Rhoska
#93 - 2014-03-20 21:36:37 UTC
@Batelle: Im afraid we are at an impasse. Your points in the last post do not convince me and are not rebuttals to my points, but rather just repetition of your initial position.

I can only agree to disagree with you on the matter of non-ore/ice reprocessing changes.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#94 - 2014-03-20 21:38:29 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Folks, read the newest dev blog. The goons in the post are gloating in their posts, so you know it is terrible for high sec.
In a few months, mission runners will now have to invest weeks and weeks of training, plus buy a hideously expensive implant, to get the privilege of a 27.6% nerf to all mission loot refines.


Or they could all sell the modules to one player with those skills.

Like the large majority of them do anyway

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#95 - 2014-03-20 21:43:08 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Xeronikus wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Just to point out, Chribba held sov solo for a rather long time.


Well, this solves all the issues I pointed out for all the other 99.X% of the players who are interested in null space but dislike the current conditions I mentioned earlier.


Nobody likes the current sov setup.

But it is better than what we had before.


In the sense that solitary for life is better than being staked out over an anthill.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#96 - 2014-03-20 21:43:24 UTC
…except that it has pretty much nothing to do with highsec, and except that mission runners can earn just as much as they always did.

So no, mission runners — and indeed all types of ratters — can just carry on as before without being affected in the slightest, regardless of which part of space they're in.
Desivo Delta Visseroff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2014-03-20 21:45:47 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


Or they could all sell the modules to one player with those skills.

Like the large majority of them do anyway


Malcanis, you bust the tinfoil too quickly. I was hoping for a threadnaught of uninformed frothing rageTwisted

I was hunting for sick loot, but all I could get my hands on were 50 corpses[:|]..............[:=d]
Thead Enco
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#98 - 2014-03-20 21:52:11 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Folks, read the newest dev blog. The goons in the post are gloating in their posts, so you know it is terrible for high sec.
In a few months, mission runners will now have to invest weeks and weeks of training, plus buy a hideously expensive implant, to get the privilege of a 27.6% nerf to all mission loot refines.


Plex>alt>Train refines

Or

Make a friend with max refine skills and throw him a few iskies
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
Brave Collective
#99 - 2014-03-20 21:57:00 UTC
My main just finished maxing refine skills.
So in the true spirit of eve i have to say: you can all go to hell.
#yolo
#reproswag


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#100 - 2014-03-20 21:58:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Arsine Mayhem
Xeronikus wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Just to point out, Chribba held sov solo for a rather long time.


Well, this solves all the issues I pointed out for all the other 99.X% of the players who are interested in null space but dislike the current conditions I mentioned earlier.


Yep, null is owned by 2 entities. Or is it 1.

Null is the lame of the game.

Hit that web site sheep, mittens needs moar rmt.