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Mineral Reprocession Changes and Capital Production

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Plug in Baby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-03-20 15:05:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Plug in Baby
Quote:
A character having perfect skills and standings, reprocessing anything that’s not ores and ices at a 50% station will get 55% reprocessing outcome (The Scrapmetal Processing skill is applied on the same fashion than ore specialization skills on the formula above).


With everything maxed it seems capitals will be wasting ~27% of the minerals in NPC stations compared to around 13% in outposts, I dont see how low sec will be able to compete with null.

Thoughts?

This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
Rita Leeds
Bluth Company
#2 - 2014-03-20 15:32:06 UTC
I read it as having the opposite since reprocessing in null sec will give better yields this will make it easier for capital production.

I, for one, look forward to the miner-bot alliance fighting for sov space.
Setsune Rin
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2014-03-20 15:32:26 UTC
link to the original thread?
Plug in Baby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-03-20 15:34:05 UTC
Setsune Rin wrote:
link to the original thread?


Linkage

This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#5 - 2014-03-20 15:42:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Aliventi
Can we get some Mynnna up in here?
Plug in Baby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-03-20 15:45:02 UTC
Aliventi wrote:
I predict everything is going to shake itself out over the next few months as people prepare for this patch. Then CCP is going to nerf NPC station, paticularly in highsec, so they no longer get 50% base reprocessing.


NPC stations are already effectively nerfed, null outposts will have much greater refining rates than NPC

This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#7 - 2014-03-20 16:34:41 UTC
Plug in Baby wrote:
the time spent hauling from a market hub to a 0.7 to compress will push people out of the business.

Miners will compress the ore at a POS before shipping it to Jita. I'll buy their compressed ore in Jita and JF it out to my build locations. All I'll have to do is change my spreadsheet from calculating how many 425s I need, to calculating the compressed ore requirements.
Plug in Baby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-03-20 16:42:08 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
Plug in Baby wrote:
the time spent hauling from a market hub to a 0.7 to compress will push people out of the business.

Miners will compress the ore at a POS before shipping it to Jita. I'll buy their compressed ore in Jita and JF it out to my build locations. All I'll have to do is change my spreadsheet from calculating how many 425s I need, to calculating the compressed ore requirements.


Fine if you built in Sov Null.

If you build in Lowsec like me you are dealing with a 27.6% loss when you reprocess with max skills + standings + implants

You are competing will nullsec caps that will lose only 13.2%.

So nullsec carriers will be 150m cheaper and dreads 300m cheaper, I'm pretty sure they can jump them to low and undercut any profit builders in low would make.

This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#9 - 2014-03-20 16:44:39 UTC
Plug in Baby wrote:
Fine if you built in Sov Null.

If you build in Lowsec like me you are dealing with a 27.6% loss when you reprocess with max skills + standings + implants


Lowsec people can use compressed ore too.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Plug in Baby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-03-20 16:49:19 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Plug in Baby wrote:
Fine if you built in Sov Null.

If you build in Lowsec like me you are dealing with a 27.6% loss when you reprocess with max skills + standings + implants


Lowsec people can use compressed ore too.


This isn't about compression, its about refining ores. No matter if the ore comes in compressed or not null sec has massive reductions in waste. I just can't see low sec competing.

I'd love to be wrong as this is my entire income, but the numbers don't lie.

This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#11 - 2014-03-20 16:49:47 UTC
Plug in Baby wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:
Plug in Baby wrote:
the time spent hauling from a market hub to a 0.7 to compress will push people out of the business.

Miners will compress the ore at a POS before shipping it to Jita. I'll buy their compressed ore in Jita and JF it out to my build locations. All I'll have to do is change my spreadsheet from calculating how many 425s I need, to calculating the compressed ore requirements.


Fine if you built in Sov Null.

If you build in Lowsec like me you are dealing with a 27.6% loss when you reprocess with max skills + standings + implants

You are competing will nullsec caps that will lose only 13.2%.

So nullsec carriers will be 150m cheaper and dreads 300m cheaper, I'm pretty sure they can jump them to low and undercut any profit builders in low would make.

Well it is CCPs stated intention to move more industry to 0.0, this would appear to be part of that.

If you do find the competition from 0.0 producers to be too great for you, then you may have to consider renting an outpost.
joyous the
Slippery Penguin
#12 - 2014-03-20 16:56:16 UTC
Plug in Baby wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:
Plug in Baby wrote:
the time spent hauling from a market hub to a 0.7 to compress will push people out of the business.

Miners will compress the ore at a POS before shipping it to Jita. I'll buy their compressed ore in Jita and JF it out to my build locations. All I'll have to do is change my spreadsheet from calculating how many 425s I need, to calculating the compressed ore requirements.


Fine if you built in Sov Null.

If you build in Lowsec like me you are dealing with a 27.6% loss when you reprocess with max skills + standings + implants

You are competing will nullsec caps that will lose only 13.2%.

So nullsec carriers will be 150m cheaper and dreads 300m cheaper, I'm pretty sure they can jump them to low and undercut any profit builders in low would make.


So people risking more are going to gain better rewards? Why I never..


Adapt or die
Plug in Baby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-03-20 16:56:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Plug in Baby
Bad Bobby wrote:
Well it is CCPs stated intention to move more industry to 0.0, this would appear to be part of that.

If you do find the competition from 0.0 producers to be too great for you, then you may have to consider renting an outpost.


I don't see how you could compete in low if you wanted to, the margins on caps are around 100-150m (roughly) if null build 150-300m cheaper that leaves you making a loss in low, even with a perfect set up. Sure they have to jump them to low to sell, but that still leaves a pretty big margin.

Renting an outpost is an alternative, but there are plenty of issues attached to that, as I'm sure you're aware.

I think more likely I'll end up cashing up and looking for an alternative investment, but we'll see.

joyous the wrote:

So people risking more are going to gain better rewards? Why I never..

Adapt or die


I don't think you understand this discussion. People in null aren't exactly flying JFs gate to gate, they are jumping to a docking ring and docking, no risk just like low.

This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#14 - 2014-03-20 17:07:53 UTC
Plug in Baby wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Plug in Baby wrote:
Fine if you built in Sov Null.

If you build in Lowsec like me you are dealing with a 27.6% loss when you reprocess with max skills + standings + implants


Lowsec people can use compressed ore too.


This isn't about compression, its about refining ores. No matter if the ore comes in compressed or not null sec has massive reductions in waste. I just can't see low sec competing.

I'd love to be wrong as this is my entire income, but the numbers don't lie.


CCP Ytterbium wrote:
A character that has perfect skills/standings who reprocesses at a 50% station with all skills maxed but without the 4% implant will have 2.8% less reprocessed minerals than currently. Again, that is an intended behavior, as we want players to invest in reprocessing to get the most out of it.


Nullsec will not have massive reductions in waste compared to what is possible in lowsec.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Blakow
Doomheim
#15 - 2014-03-20 17:13:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Blakow
Plug in Baby wrote:
Quote:
A character having perfect skills and standings, reprocessing anything that’s not ores and ices at a 50% station will get 55% reprocessing outcome (The Scrapmetal Processing skill is applied on the same fashion than ore specialization skills on the formula above).


Unless everyone suddenly starts compressing all their ore, which I can't really see happening this will probably have massive consequences for the capital and super capital market.

With everything maxed it seems capitals will be wasting ~18% of the minerals, and with the extra skill requirements and difficulty. Also things like POS fuel costs and the time spent hauling from a market hub to a 0.7 to compress will push people out of the business.

TL;DR I expect caps will increase by 30% w.r.t mineral prices.

Thoughts?


What numbers are you using? The intense Reproc Array will be @54% and null stations will default to 50% and can be upgraded as high as 60%, but most wont I presume.

Overall this could cause prices of Caps to go down. It just might take a bit for everyone to get their logistics chains agjusted and new toons trained up.
Plug in Baby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-03-20 17:22:35 UTC
Blakow wrote:

What numbers are you using? The intense Reproc Array will be @54% and null stations will default to 50% and can be upgraded as high as 60%, but most wont I presume.

Overall this could cause prices of Caps to go down. It just might take a bit for everyone to get their logistics chains agjusted and new toons trained up.


Yeah I made a mistake I didn't realise that null was cheaper at first, so maybe capital prices won't change so much.

The different between the efficiencies are huge when skills are considered, I can't see how outposts won't be upgraded, the potential income difference is just huge.

This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#17 - 2014-03-20 17:34:14 UTC
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#18 - 2014-03-20 18:05:00 UTC
Plug in Baby wrote:
Blakow wrote:

What numbers are you using? The intense Reproc Array will be @54% and null stations will default to 50% and can be upgraded as high as 60%, but most wont I presume.

Overall this could cause prices of Caps to go down. It just might take a bit for everyone to get their logistics chains agjusted and new toons trained up.


Yeah I made a mistake I didn't realise that null was cheaper at first, so maybe capital prices won't change so much.

The different between the efficiencies are huge when skills are considered, I can't see how outposts won't be upgraded, the potential income difference is just huge.

as little as i care for refining, the jump from 54% to 60% is really huge and pretty much eats up the margin in anything that is not too bulky to ship out from null. I can well imagine jump freighters full of T1 modules and ammo going from null to jita instead of the other way round.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Blakow
Doomheim
#19 - 2014-03-20 18:13:06 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Plug in Baby wrote:
Blakow wrote:

What numbers are you using? The intense Reproc Array will be @54% and null stations will default to 50% and can be upgraded as high as 60%, but most wont I presume.

Overall this could cause prices of Caps to go down. It just might take a bit for everyone to get their logistics chains agjusted and new toons trained up.


Yeah I made a mistake I didn't realise that null was cheaper at first, so maybe capital prices won't change so much.

The different between the efficiencies are huge when skills are considered, I can't see how outposts won't be upgraded, the potential income difference is just huge.

as little as i care for refining, the jump from 54% to 60% is really huge and pretty much eats up the margin in anything that is not too bulky to ship out from null. I can well imagine jump freighters full of T1 modules and ammo going from null to jita instead of the other way round.


Maybe. I can see this bumping up the value to Null space next to hi/low, especially for renters. But for those deep null regions? Not so sure. The logistics is a nightmare and fuel costs suck as you go deeper.
350125GO
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2014-03-20 19:14:23 UTC
Blakow wrote:


Maybe. I can see this bumping up the value to Null space next to hi/low, especially for renters. But for those deep null regions? Not so sure. The logistics is a nightmare and fuel costs suck as you go deeper.


So HED-GP becomes the new Jita, or do you see this as a boon for NPC null space?

You're young, you'll adjust. I'm old, I'll get used to it.
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