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49125
Growing Old Disgracefully
#221 - 2011-11-30 02:56:06 UTC
Re-subbed only a couple of weeks ago after a long break. I awoke early and patched and played ... and got a migraine.

Please add an option to cycle Proper case and UPPER.

Also, please allow the selection of a single font size that applies to all EVE windows, tabs, counters - everything.

.
Psychophantic
#222 - 2011-11-30 03:00:08 UTC
Vera Godspiel wrote:

To the opposers of this new font; I've yet to hear an actual valid argument why it is bad.


It's not a fixed width font. Looks bad in multiple columns like angular / radial / velocity in overview.

The font spacing is messed up. I'm looking at my overview in 100% atm and an angular of 0.097 has the seven actually touching the nine.

At 100% default UI scaling the font is larger than the old one. Who would have thought that increasing the size of a font would make it more readable. To see the same amount of information in windows now takes up more screen real estate at 100%.

If I lower it to 90% the overview text is perfect. Context font size can be adjusted no probs. Headers are now too small, item counts are too small, ammo count on modules is now too small. All icons on overview and in space are now too faint.

Just a few valid arguments off the top of my head.
Vachir Khan
Rugged Ruff and Ready
#223 - 2011-11-30 03:03:48 UTC
Psychophantic wrote:
Vera Godspiel wrote:

To the opposers of this new font; I've yet to hear an actual valid argument why it is bad.


It's not a fixed width font. Looks bad in multiple columns like angular / radial / velocity in overview.

The font spacing is messed up. I'm looking at my overview in 100% atm and an angular of 0.097 has the seven actually touching the nine.

At 100% default UI scaling the font is larger than the old one. Who would have thought that increasing the size of a font would make it more readable. To see the same amount of information in windows now takes up more screen real estate at 100%.

If I lower it to 90% the overview text is perfect. Context font size can be adjusted no probs. Headers are now too small, item counts are too small, ammo count on modules is now too small. All icons on overview and in space are now too faint.

Just a few valid arguments off the top of my head.


Oh come on now, those aren't at all valid concerns and you're not allowed to voice them /sarcasm

I think there difference of opinion comes from some people actually PVPing and wanting to extract as much info from overview etc without it taking up half their screen (and thus not being happy with the current font), and other people who... do whatever the **** they do but it's not PVP.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#224 - 2011-11-30 03:04:13 UTC
Psychophantic wrote:
Vera Godspiel wrote:

To the opposers of this new font; I've yet to hear an actual valid argument why it is bad.


It's not a fixed width font. Looks bad in multiple columns like angular / radial / velocity in overview.

The font spacing is messed up. I'm looking at my overview in 100% atm and an angular of 0.097 has the seven actually touching the nine.

At 100% default UI scaling the font is larger than the old one. Who would have thought that increasing the size of a font would make it more readable. To see the same amount of information in windows now takes up more screen real estate at 100%.

If I lower it to 90% the overview text is perfect. Context font size can be adjusted no probs. Headers are now too small, item counts are too small, ammo count on modules is now too small. All icons on overview and in space are now too faint.

Just a few valid arguments off the top of my head.



Perfectly put, im sure tippia will still come and tell you how wrong you are. Thats what hes paid for!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#225 - 2011-11-30 03:09:56 UTC
Amber Green Thorn wrote:
Quote:
…and that was why the old font was such a bad choice for the various uses it was assigned to. What the font needs to do is be clear, at a large number of different sizes and resolutions. The new one is; the old one was not.
So wrong - using multiple similarly sized fonts together in any form of media, whether in print or on a computer screen is a fundamental mistake. Adding bold and normal to the mix makes it worse. I once studied typography and that was one of 'the rules'. Go look at some crap websites and you'll soon get the drift.
I don't think you quite understood what I wrote, because it had nothing to do with what you wrote.

What I was saying that the old font didn't improve with size, and that it definitely got worse as sizes decreased. You seem to argue that you shouldn't mix fonts or sizes, which is something completely different.
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
The fact is that the overall appearance of the font, to get it looking reasonable, as in, scaling the ui to cut the font down to size, results in the distortion of very important markers in the game.
So a) the problem isn't with the font, but with the UI scaling, and b) your opinion is that the font needs to be combined with 90% scaling to work.
Quote:
I realise that you never undock
Ah, so now you're using ad hominems instead. Have you tried making an argument without resorting to fallacies?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#226 - 2011-11-30 03:10:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Psychophantic wrote:
It's not a fixed width font. Looks bad in multiple columns like angular / radial / velocity in overview.
Neither was the old one. Moreover, not being fixed with is a good thing — it means text actually flows properly.
Quote:
At 100% default UI scaling the font is larger than the old one. Who would have thought that increasing the size of a font would make it more readable.
Weeell… actually, increasing the size will quite often make something less readable (unless we're talking about increasing it so it is no longer legal-style small-print).
Quote:
If I lower it to 90% the overview text is perfect.
How does it look if you set the overview to “small text”?
Psychophantic
#227 - 2011-11-30 03:11:40 UTC
Tippia wrote:
]Weeell… actually, increasing the size will quite often make something less readable (unless we're talking about increasing it so it is no longer legal-style small-print).


Tippia. Grass is green.

Here we go.....
Vachir Khan
Rugged Ruff and Ready
#228 - 2011-11-30 03:14:45 UTC
The EVE forum just had a few good posters, this thread proves that one of them didn't actually belong on that list and is thus removed from it.

Actual good posters left: Malcanis, akita T and possibly 1 or 2 others.
Whiff
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#229 - 2011-11-30 03:15:26 UTC
Somebody posted this earlier - in case it gets lost.

http://i.imgur.com/M8T1N.jpg

The above illustrates the problem perfectly; basically it's mess - I went JTFC when loading up Crucible -------EvilEvilEvilEvilEvilEvil

I have a 22 inch monitor -1680 res pretty standard combo thang - On default it looked like a tramps pants so cunningly I clocked down to 90% thinking this'll do it -but no. I am for one NOT going to be happy with the way the scaling stands atm. Brought down the whole Crucible experience for me. For players with widescreen TV's and vibrating drinks holders I'm sure it's great (ps you guys have zero taste)

The font is pish -no getting round that - but for the love of god get the scaling right CCP. Nice work on the rest thoughLol
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#230 - 2011-11-30 03:19:29 UTC
Psychophantic wrote:
Tippia. Grass is green.
Depends on the grass. What's your point?
Rhaegor Stormborn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#231 - 2011-11-30 03:22:23 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Psychophantic wrote:
Tippia. Grass is green.
Depends on the grass. What's your point?


You are a terrible poster, and I know a lot about terrible posting.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#232 - 2011-11-30 03:25:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
I dont know, tippia is always a compulsive contrarian, dont know how posting 1000 times a day made him a good poster lol.


Tippia, saying you never un-dock is no ad hominem, if anything its a quick way of expressing that our divergent game-styles may have lead us to our different views on the font.

For what i do, as in pvp, the old font was perfectly functional. For what i do, the new font eats up space, OR if i fix that becomes unreadable in places / distorts important game information.

For example. How am i to warp to a wreck in a battle when i can barely see the wreck? Your answer is to use 100% scaling, but at that i lose a lot of space for important information. These are compromises that i did not have to make with the old font, thus, this new font is generally less suitable for pvp.

Some less anal people who never take any time to optimise their UI might not notice a great deal of difference but i can see from the forum that there are many that do.
Mutie DaPig
Doomheim
#233 - 2011-11-30 03:29:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutie DaPig
Zanthosistine wrote:
Comments about how this looks "on your machine" would be a LOT more useful if you would care to take a moment to mention what hardware and graphics settings you are using.


Man has a point................

Perhaps post up these specs before you make yer point:

A: Actual size of your screen or monitor or television.
B: Ingame Eve screen resolution selected.
C: 90 or 100% or whatever scaling you're using.

It would at least let us get a picture of what combo's are going wrong or right.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#234 - 2011-11-30 03:36:18 UTC
I use 24 inch 1080p screen. Until they fix or change the font i will be using 90% scaling and compromising on the quality and visibility of the icons on the overview and in space.

Using 100% scaling and small text on overview, as well as being aesthetically jarring, leaves me with too little space for other important windows to fit comfortably, like intel channels, local, scanner etc.

Overall, would go back to old font in a second. No advantage in any configuration of the new font for me. Only drawbacks.

And 0's look like 8's at 90% scaling in a lot of places too.... lol
Woo Doggy
Doomheim
#235 - 2011-11-30 03:37:44 UTC
Psychophantic wrote:
Vera Godspiel wrote:

To the opposers of this new font; I've yet to hear an actual valid argument why it is bad.


It's not a fixed width font. Looks bad in multiple columns like angular / radial / velocity in overview.

The font spacing is messed up. I'm looking at my overview in 100% atm and an angular of 0.097 has the seven actually touching the nine.

At 100% default UI scaling the font is larger than the old one. Who would have thought that increasing the size of a font would make it more readable. To see the same amount of information in windows now takes up more screen real estate at 100%.

If I lower it to 90% the overview text is perfect. Context font size can be adjusted no probs. Headers are now too small, item counts are too small, ammo count on modules is now too small. All icons on overview and in space are now too faint.

Just a few valid arguments off the top of my head.


Exactly. The issue isn't the font. It's the UI scaling that is messed up.
Psychophantic
#236 - 2011-11-30 03:47:48 UTC
CCP Navigator wrote:
current font rendering system.


Think I've found the problem.

Instead UI scaling is developed which wasn't needed before this font.
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#237 - 2011-11-30 03:52:43 UTC
Miss President wrote:
After my first post, I have to say that the new font makes me not want to play eve. It's such a turn away.

It make me dizzy, because it's hard to read and requires constant refocusing. What took a fraction of second to read before now takes a full second to just start reading. Reading is completely counter intuitive. Now takes into mind that each area of interface is at different font size, different scale and different spacing - making it seem like you're reading 10 different fonts - all of which suck.

Our mind can briefly glance at something with normal fonts and get the message, with new font I don't find it possible.






This is exactly what I was talking about, it gives me headaches :(

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
J Random
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#238 - 2011-11-30 03:53:28 UTC  |  Edited by: J Random
Nothing constructive to add other than the new font is horrible. I'm not quite sure what it is but the pixelation / aliasing seems off. First I was forced to turn anti-aliasing on (was off and the font was unreadable) but even on high something just isn't working.

I don't think it's the choice of font that is the problem, I think it's a rendering issue.

PS: What I really want is monotype. I like fixed width fonts for displaying tactical information

Edit: Def an issue also with rendering some of the old graphics. For example if I open up a L4 agent and have a mish v. let's say Amarr (at 90% UI) I can't even make out the empire / faction graphics (and I'm on a 1920x1080 23" screen)
Jade Mitch
A Problem with Authority
#239 - 2011-11-30 04:02:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Mitch
CCP, how in the world could your font rendering system lack a variety of suitable fonts? If it has anything to do with patents and/or copyrights getting in your way, then you need to help inform the public about how intellectual property rights do more to stifle progress in the arts and sciences and depress economic productivity than to promote it. The worse thing you can do is remain a silent beneficiary and co-conspirator of this global injustice.
Veriasse Valence
Axitek Consortium
#240 - 2011-11-30 04:05:51 UTC
The longer I spend with this new... font..... the more I hate it. The numbers in my wallet look completely out of whack, its no longer possible to quickly scan it. The spacings are uneven, the commas miniscule, and the numbers seem to float almost each by itself. Just terrible.

I never had trouble with previous font, and now not only do I feel like I entered some weird EVE-version of a lame powerpoint but I no longer have the comfort of my nice clean wallet, its looks muddled at best.