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Buying PLEX!

Author
Tom Hagen
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-09-07 17:26:13 UTC
As many others here surely have done, I have stopped buying game time or subscribing to EVE. Now a days I buy PLEX of the market to pay for my time in game.

The last time I did pay for EVE with IRL money I actually got the feeling I was buying ISK, and as a result I felt a little bit as a cheater..

Anyone else get that feeling?
And isnt that a bad omen for CCP if their playerbase start to hesitate in spending money on EVE?
Stormhammer Investments
Doomheim
#2 - 2011-09-07 18:20:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Stormhammer Investments
If you pay for the subscription how would that translate to buying ISK? As for the plex well you are savvy enough to know that somebody somewhere has already paid for it with real life money.

All that is happening is two people get happy. You for not spending your real money. The original purchaser of the plex for getting ISK when he sold it and CCP for the sucker paying above the going sub rate for the plex to begin with. So I guess that means 3 people are happy if you consider CCP as one entity.
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2011-09-07 21:38:39 UTC
Stormhammer Investments wrote:
If you pay for the subscription how would that translate to buying ISK?

because you spare the expense of 350-400m ISK by spending real money.

whether you get an "extra" 400m by spending real money or merely save the expense of 400m by spending real money is pretty much the same, isn't it?
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2011-09-07 22:36:16 UTC
By that logic, every time you buy PLEX on the market you are conducting RMT. Selling 350MISK for $15 or spending 350MISK to save the expense of $15 is pretty much the same, isn't it?
Kethas Protagonist
Protagonist Ventures
#5 - 2011-09-08 00:04:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Kethas Protagonist
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
By that logic, every time you buy PLEX on the market you are conducting RMT. Selling 350MISK for $15 or spending 350MISK to save the expense of $15 is pretty much the same, isn't it?


Er... yes, you are conducting RMT. Pretty much by definition.

The only difference is CCP only condones RMT when CCP itself is the original seller.

... Your point is?
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-09-08 04:44:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
Kethas Protagonist wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
By that logic, every time you buy PLEX on the market you are conducting RMT. Selling 350MISK for $15 or spending 350MISK to save the expense of $15 is pretty much the same, isn't it?


Er... yes, you are conducting RMT. Pretty much by definition.

The only difference is CCP only condones RMT when CCP itself is the original seller.

... Your point is?


OP seems to think buying ISK for $ is morally wrong (feels like cheating), but he is okay with buying $ for ISK. Whether or not CCP condones it is irrelevant, as in either case CCP is the second party.
Jaxx McCoy
#7 - 2011-09-08 08:59:14 UTC
Hmmm I must be a big cheater then since I still pay for my account using real US dollars. (ISK is probably a more valuable currency than the horrible USD by the way!) P
Claire Voyant
#8 - 2011-09-08 15:18:50 UTC
Look, it is very simple. Buying PLEX to use for gametime is selling isk. Paying for a subscription with cash is buying isk. Both are forms of RMT. Just get over it. The only way to avoid RMT is to quit the game, so stop your whining.
Tom Hagen
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-09-08 15:52:16 UTC
I am well aware of the RMT factor and that is actually what I do in one way or the other.

It is not an moral issue, it is a well function feature in the game that is open for everyone that are succesful enough in game.
I dont belive other people cheats by paying for the game with IRL money.

For years I have played games that frown upon RMT traders, and most still do.
This was more an amusing oddity that I suddenly sit in a chair where it feels like I am doing the wrong thing by doing the normal. Paying for my game time with money.
However irrational my feeling is, I cant help to feel its creats ISK out of thin air for me ingame. And it was more a question of if anyone else feel like that.
Just to put some perspective on it, althou the RMT isnt the real problem here (but since so many have chosen to go down that path). The cost for paying for an eve subscription dont keep me up at nights and thus ISK has a higher value for me.
Maybe that is part of the reason why I feel like I am cheating.

So my previous questions remains:
Anyone else get that feeling? (keyword here is "feeling")
And isnt that a bad omen for CCP if their playerbase start to hesitate in spending money on EVE?



How is this whining?
Why would I whine about playing a game for free that I actually enjoy and think is fun?
I will just take that as a missunderstanding due to me being unclear in my first post.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2011-09-08 16:08:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
Tom Hagen wrote:
However irrational my feeling is, I cant help to feel its creats ISK out of thin air for me ingame. And it was more a question of if anyone else feel like that.


It doesn't create anything out of thin air. You turn your $15 that you presumably spent some time earning into 30 days of subscription. Then you trade those 30 days to another person for ISK.

In essnce, it is a question of whether you should shoot at NPCs in an online game for 4 hours, or write some code which will actually be useful for an hour (or flip burgers or whatever you do) to get that shiny Tengu. The fact that EVE allows this without any relarded nonsense like a cash shop is one of the reasons I like EVE.
Tom Hagen
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-09-08 17:50:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Tom Hagen
It seems my english sucks and somehow I cant get through with the finer points, I will try and bold some words here to make it easier to understand maybe..


Tom Hagen wrote:
I am well aware of the RMT factor and that is actually what I do in one way or the other.

It is not an moral issue, it is a well function feature in the game that is open for everyone that are succesful enough in game.
I dont belive other people cheats by paying for the game with IRL money.

For years I have played games that frown upon RMT traders, and most still do.
This was more an amusing oddity that I suddenly sit in a chair where it feels like I am doing the wrong thing by doing the normal. Paying for my game time with money.
However irrational my feeling is, I cant help to feel its creats ISK out of thin air for me ingame. And it was more a question of if anyone else feel like that.
Just to put some perspective on it, althou the RMT isnt the real problem here (but since so many have chosen to go down that path). The cost for paying for an eve subscription dont keep me up at nights and thus ISK has a higher value for me.
Maybe that is part of the reason why I feel like I am cheating.

So my previous questions remains:
Anyone else get that feeling? (keyword here is "[b]feeling[/b]")
And isnt that a bad omen for CCP if their playerbase start to hesitate in spending money on EVE?



How is this whining?
Why would I whine about playing a game for free that I actually enjoy and think is fun?
I will just take that as a missunderstanding due to me being unclear in my first post.


I will take the liberty to copy and paste a few words from my first post also
"I have stopped buying game time or subscribing to EVE"
I do not refer to it as PLEX but a more general term of gametime, or subscripstion. Not limiting myself to PLEX for ISK issues.

I do mention PLEX when I (maybe a fault of mine) add the self explanatory, how I pay for my gametime.
"Now a days I buy PLEX of the market to pay for my time in game."

I appreciate people taking their time and try to explain the concept of RMT for me. All we really need now is if some MD Elite or other well known MD character (dont really know the difference :-) could step in and write an essay on RMT.
As I have learned over the years that represents my life. It is often the unwanted lessons you learn the most from such as when you fall on your bike, crash your car or try to dry your cat in the microwave oven.

If anyone sees any more open doors to kick down in my argument dont hesitate to jump in..

EDIT: I alos underlined it because the bolded part I felt was to subtle.
Claire Voyant
#12 - 2011-09-08 17:56:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Claire Voyant
Tom Hagen wrote:
How is this whining?
Why would I whine about playing a game for free that I actually enjoy and think is fun?
I will just take that as a missunderstanding due to me being unclear in my first post.

You completely missed my point.

# 1. You have been trained to feel that RMT is cheating, but CCP has an officially sanctioned form of RMT so obviously at least that form of RMT is not cheating in any way.

# 2. There was a subsequent discussion of sorts about whether buying PLEX felt more like cheating or paying for your subs was more like cheating. My point was that they were two sides of the same coin. One was selling isk, the other was in effect buying isk. There was no morally superior side.

# 3. My larger point was that by officially sanctioning RMT, CCP has made us all cheaters and the only way to avoid that feeling is to quit. So either man up and "cheat" or GTFO.

I am sorry for calling it "whining" but I suppose what I meant was complaining about a situation that cannot be changed, like "why does it have to be so dark at night and so bright in the daytime."

P.S. I suppose you could just stop using isk altogether. Mine you own minerals make your own ships, mods, and ammo and just go off the grid. So let me know how that works for you.

P.P.S. To more directly address Tom's concerns: It feels like cheating because it is cheating. But so is not doing it. So just get over it, mkay?

P.P.P.S. I suppose you could steal someone's credit card and use it to pay for your account, but then you would be stealing but not cheating.
Brock Nelson
#13 - 2011-09-08 18:25:19 UTC
Congrats Tom, you've managed to troll some of the best in this forum Lol

Signature removed, CCP Phantom

Tom Hagen
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2011-09-08 20:24:46 UTC
@ Claire Voyant

#1 I agree, it was never an issue.

#2 I agree again

#3 Yes and I am still here

So why does it have to be so dark at night?
And why must it be so bright during daytime?

I feel I have tried to get through with my point here several times and it seems like I am failing hard based on the responses I got so far.. I just gonna sit back and see if someone else catch my meaning and if so maybe can help to steer this thread in the right direction. Mostly because my time to spend on the forum is limited for another 24 hours or so.



@ Brock Nelson

Sir I have no clue what you are talking about Lol

But you bring two very interesting question to mind for me..

You say "some of the best" care to elaborate, any name dropping?
And while you are at it who is on the other side of "some of the best"?
Brock Nelson
#15 - 2011-09-08 21:13:03 UTC
I would say Claire is the best of the forum and there's too many to list for the worst Blink

Signature removed, CCP Phantom

flakeys
Doomheim
#16 - 2011-09-08 21:27:51 UTC
Switched to plex myself bout 9 months back or so i think.

Specially in times when your doubting if you feel like continuing the game or not it's nice to be able to just sub a year with ingame currency without actually feeling the need to play unlike when you would pay a years sub with rl cash.Basically with plex i don't see myself unsubbing eve ever as there is no ''benefit'' to it , even if it is just for skillchanging at a certain point.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Atima
House of Marbles
#17 - 2011-09-08 23:24:52 UTC
been paying with GTC's since they were 350mill for 90 days. I'm not significantly opposed to RMT on a smaller scale. I equate grinding in eve to grinding in RL. What I am opposed to is RMT on a large scale.

I see Plex/GTC or whatever as RMT. I would prefer if it was not here at all but I will take advantage of it.

If CCP ever take plex's or GTC's out of the equation allowing the 'sell side' of RMT to increase beyond reasonable levels I would be leaving, but I would happily make my last act RMT'ing all my eve assets. I'm significantly opposed to that idea but would take advantage of it.

What I would like to see is some limit on the 'buy side' of current RMT forms. I can understand someone buying 1,2 even up to 5 plex's with the intention to sell for isk. After this point I think CCP is abusing their customer base and really it falls to those with addictive personalities. They are at this moment in time exploiting the weak for their own gains and I find it highly immoral.

I would like CCP to impose a maximum 5 plex sales per month. It allows people with little to time to play to enjoy the game and any more than this I find excessive.
Claire Voyant
#18 - 2011-09-09 17:47:35 UTC
I have another idea. You could pay for your sub one month with cash then the next month with PLEX you bought from the market. That you you would in effect be buying PLEX from yourself and all would be right with the world.
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2011-09-11 03:57:25 UTC
monocle with trolling lvl 5 again D: