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New Order Mining Permits Now Worthless?

First post
Author
Nazmin Tomas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#141 - 2014-03-19 15:54:58 UTC
My Permit is not worthless, it also has sentimental value, its like getting an autograph from a celebrity (if you see who issued it). I'm getting my renewed permit from Bing Bangboom next.
Winchester Steele
#142 - 2014-03-19 15:59:17 UTC
Wulfgar WarHammer wrote:
I'll just leave this here, as I have left in every other NO thread I find.

I mine semi-afk (alt-tabbed while I'm at work) 9-5 Eastern Standard Time from Monday to Friday, in a system 2 jumps from Amarr.

I mine in an untanked Mackinaw, and I spit in the face of your code. I have been spouting this disrespect for almost a month, and none of you have come to do anything about it yet. Your delusion that you are "creating content" is laughable, at best. As I've said and will re-iterate, you are fail PvP pilots that need to attack people who don't fight back with some kind of twisted mentality that makes you think you are "champions".

If your bark had ANY kind of bite, I'd have lost a ton of barges by now. The fact that I can publicly taunt you, time and time again, and you are powerless to do anything about it, will hopefully steer away any aspirant code-compliers from falling for your troll scams.

Still waiting,
WW



You are SEVERELY overestimating your importance. Noone is paying attention to you because you are an afk bot aspirant who contributes nothing to the sandbox or the community. You might as well be an NPC. Or an antimatter dumpster. Either way, not worth more than 30 seconds of the Order's time, and even then only if they feel like using you to create content for the real EvE players. HTH.

...

Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#143 - 2014-03-19 16:02:22 UTC
People actually gave money to these knuckle dragging Order imbeciles? Now that is funny. Lol

Next they will sell forum permits or gank you for your forum posts.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#144 - 2014-03-19 16:06:08 UTC
Michael Ruckert wrote:
As I was flying in the Everyshore region, I ran across this message posted in small secure containers at two jump gates.

ATTENTION CODE permit holding miners are now subject to bumps and ganks DO NOT buy permits.

Looks like someone has created a NEW New Order with the message that mining permits are worthless.



They were worth something to begin with?
When ever I felt like a gank, new order permits were always primary.

Signature removed - CCP Eterne

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#145 - 2014-03-19 16:06:33 UTC
All New Order permits are worthless. Anyone who forks out 10m for one is being scammed.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Salvos Rhoska
#146 - 2014-03-19 16:07:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Rashnu Gorbani wrote:
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:
A tank will cost you from two to ten million ISK every hour.

I would have thought 10m/hr is a very high number to make at all while mining in hisec.


Ice Mining is currently at about 4.XMil/15mins in highsec.

It translates roughly to an Ice Miner being able to PLEX itself for 1hr Ice Mining, per day.
For a few clicks every 15mins, that is enormously easy and profitable for an essentially inactive player.

Where this becomes problematic with Ice Mining in particular, is from the following reasons:
-High sec is very safe. Not only due to CONCORD limiting the cost/benefit equation, but also due to the sheer volume of potential targets. Safety in numbers, and high sec ice fields are packed to the brim.
-If we take the above figure of 4.xMil/15mins, so 1 hr per day to PLEX, any additional time soent mining Ice is pure profit.
For 2hrs a day, you can PLEX 2 accounts. If you mine with several accounts (as many many do) the profits are enormous over a month. For example. 3 accounts at 1hr a day will PLEX themselves. 3 accounts at 2hrs a day will PLEX 6 accounts.
-The Ice Belts are predictable. Both in location, and in spawn time. Meaning players know very reliably when and where to roll out and exploit them.
-Ice Mining is cheap in terms of ship fits and training time. Seriously. Many non-miners would be seriously jealous if they knew just how fast and cheap it is to outfit a Retriever for example.

As I suggested earlier, I will restate it again:

-Make Ice Belts a random sweeping Anomaly spawn, similar to conventional Ore Anomalies.

As to TNO and other permits, think of it as a one time pass to not get ganked.
If younthink the permit carries any kind of weight for an entire year, you are misinformed about the structure and function of TNO.
The permits terms, and TNOs manifesto, provide so many internal loopholes that they can and will attack you regardless of a permit.
TNOs informal Corp structure also means that there is no actual formal list of permit holders, let alone that list being updated every minute to all Agents and Knights of the Order.

10mil is a tiny price to pay for the atleast superficial opportunity to immediately relocate your operation to another field.
Pay it to make them go away and bother someone else if you are not tanked. But dont expect it to protect you against the next Agent/K ight who happens along. It wont.
Winchester Steele
#147 - 2014-03-19 16:09:31 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
All New Order permits are worthless. Anyone who forks out 10m for one is being scammed.




Or is supporting emergent gameplay and against the automated gameplay which has infested High Security space like a cancer.

All a matter of perspective I suppose.

...

Enraku Reynolt
Of Tears and ISK
ISK.Net
#148 - 2014-03-19 16:12:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Enraku Reynolt
Winchester Steele wrote:



You are SEVERELY overestimating your importance. Noone is paying attention to you because you are an afk bot aspirant who contributes nothing to the sandbox or the community. You might as well be an NPC. Or an antimatter dumpster. Either way, not worth more than 30 seconds of the Order's time, and even then only if they feel like using you to create content for the real EvE players. HTH.



Sort of blows holes in your claims that you all were doing that to get rid of some perceived afk mining menace (over looking if that was really your goal, youd just go around trying to talk to people, and if they didn't respond, then attack, but I digress)
thanks for being honest that your group are just 8th rate extortionists

Sarah McKnobbo wrote:
When were they worth anything to start with?

cause it needs to be repeated, or posted next to those cans that started this thread
Winchester Steele
#149 - 2014-03-19 16:27:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Winchester Steele
Enraku Reynolt wrote:
Winchester Steele wrote:



You are SEVERELY overestimating your importance. Noone is paying attention to you because you are an afk bot aspirant who contributes nothing to the sandbox or the community. You might as well be an NPC. Or an antimatter dumpster. Either way, not worth more than 30 seconds of the Order's time, and even then only if they feel like using you to create content for the real EvE players. HTH.



Sort of blows holes in your claims that you all were doing that to get rid of some perceived afk mining menace (over looking if that was really your goal, youd just go around trying to talk to people, and if they didn't respond, then attack, but I digress)
thanks for being honest that your group are just 8th rate extortionists

Sarah McKnobbo wrote:
When were they worth anything to start with?

cause it needs to be repeated, or posted next to those cans that started this thread



How you figure sports fan? The NO kills thousands of bot - aspirants. You think one irrelevant dude in Amarr matters? Sorry no. He is but one tiny barnicle among thousands to be scraped off the hull of high-sec. He must wait his turn in line like all the other NPC...err miners.

Edit: the NO agents and knights talk to bot-aspirants all the time. It usually doesn't pan out because having a convo with someone who is "doing their laundry" isn't very productive.

...

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#150 - 2014-03-19 17:12:09 UTC
Yarda Black wrote:
My hope is now on a dude that multiboxes Talosses and ganks freighters. This guy is NOT in an NPC corp. He's also NOT using cheap throw away alts. Based on the age of his characters he's forced to go lowsec to grind up his sec-status. He's also got a bunch of killrights on him like a boss. THAT is ganking for pro's. In my opinion. In MY story.


I can't imagine using a talos to hit anything smaller than an orca, its not economically pheasible. You can either spend 30 mill to kill and exhumer using three catalysts, or spend 100 mill for a single talos. Which sounds smarter? Also, we have been orca ganking for awhile and have been moving into freighters and even got a jump freighter kill last week. If you look at some of our more recent kill mails you will see brutix's and talos's. Ideally turnout would be higher so we could move back to t2 catalysts though.

As for corps, a suprisingly small number of NO players are in NPC corps. If you're going to fly around with kill rights on you, there's no reason to fear a wardec.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!

Serene Repose
#151 - 2014-03-19 19:27:00 UTC
"NOW" worthless? "NOW" WORTHLESS??? Pssst. Here's a clue.
They've ALWAYS been worthless.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#152 - 2014-03-19 20:09:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tear Jar
March rabbit wrote:
Tear Jar wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Arancar Australis wrote:
Buy a permit you say...you do know that us Aussies are stubborn and laugh in the face of supposed authority, right? P


Cheers,

AA



I'm an Aussie, and I accept James' authority over highsec.

it's ok. Some people just NEED to follow somebody. You know: the world is complex and harsh. You NEED somebody to give you orders and be your leader.

By becoming stronger you will be able to choose your own way.


What planet do you live on? Because almost everybody on Earth has a leader. Nobody is completely above the law. At best, they can choose which group to follow.

on the Earth you have no choice, i agree

in Eve Online you have the choice. That's why i speak about NEED to be leaded and ordered.


Even in Eve, you are beholden to the rules of CCP and the laws of both your country and Iceland. You aren't strong enough to oppose the order they impose on you.

Edit: I will also note that the strongest people in the game are more tied down in rules and regulations than your average player. Strength in Eve is primarily determined by your ability to influence others, which requires negotiation and deal making.
voetius
Grundrisse
#153 - 2014-03-19 22:02:47 UTC
New Order permits were never worth anything due to the way extortion rackets work (or don't work in this case).

Extortion rackets, e.g. those in real life work because of some exclusivity, that guy who is going to break your legs will also make sure that no-one else is going to break your legs because there would be no point paying him otherwise.

This doesn't apply in EvE as anyone else can come along and extort you and James (or anyone else) can't protect you against them.
Winchester Steele
#154 - 2014-03-19 22:12:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Winchester Steele
voetius wrote:
New Order permits were never worth anything due to the way extortion rackets work (or don't work in this case).

Extortion rackets, e.g. those in real life work because of some exclusivity, that guy who is going to break your legs will also make sure that no-one else is going to break your legs because there would be no point paying him otherwise.

This doesn't apply in EvE as anyone else can come along and extort you and James (or anyone else) can't protect you against them.



Why do you need someone to protect you in the first place? Why on God's green earth would you want to play a helpless victim in a video game? Don't you get enough of that IRL?

I've been a supporter of the Order since its inception and at no point do I ever recall anyone from NO talking about protecting miners. In fact the very opposite is enshrined in the code:

"Goofus whines in local after being suicide ganked.
Gallant thanks the ganker for teaching him a lesson."

"- Upon being suicide ganked, a miner should congratulate the ganker on his success. A "good fight" or "gf" in local is customary."

Silly bear. Living in NO territory and not knowing, by rote, the single most important document in all of High-Sec.

...

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#155 - 2014-03-19 22:25:53 UTC
Winchester Steele wrote:
Wulfgar WarHammer wrote:
I'll just leave this here, as I have left in every other NO thread I find.

I mine semi-afk (alt-tabbed while I'm at work) 9-5 Eastern Standard Time from Monday to Friday, in a system 2 jumps from Amarr.

I mine in an untanked Mackinaw, and I spit in the face of your code. I have been spouting this disrespect for almost a month, and none of you have come to do anything about it yet. Your delusion that you are "creating content" is laughable, at best. As I've said and will re-iterate, you are fail PvP pilots that need to attack people who don't fight back with some kind of twisted mentality that makes you think you are "champions".

If your bark had ANY kind of bite, I'd have lost a ton of barges by now. The fact that I can publicly taunt you, time and time again, and you are powerless to do anything about it, will hopefully steer away any aspirant code-compliers from falling for your troll scams.

Still waiting,
WW



You are SEVERELY overestimating your importance. Noone is paying attention to you because you are an afk bot aspirant who contributes nothing to the sandbox or the community. You might as well be an NPC. Or an antimatter dumpster. Either way, not worth more than 30 seconds of the Order's time, and even then only if they feel like using you to create content for the real EvE players. HTH.



Also you guys do not exactly have a strong Amarr presence at the moment.

Just saying.
Winchester Steele
#156 - 2014-03-20 00:44:50 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Winchester Steele wrote:
Wulfgar WarHammer wrote:
I'll just leave this here, as I have left in every other NO thread I find.

I mine semi-afk (alt-tabbed while I'm at work) 9-5 Eastern Standard Time from Monday to Friday, in a system 2 jumps from Amarr.

I mine in an untanked Mackinaw, and I spit in the face of your code. I have been spouting this disrespect for almost a month, and none of you have come to do anything about it yet. Your delusion that you are "creating content" is laughable, at best. As I've said and will re-iterate, you are fail PvP pilots that need to attack people who don't fight back with some kind of twisted mentality that makes you think you are "champions".

If your bark had ANY kind of bite, I'd have lost a ton of barges by now. The fact that I can publicly taunt you, time and time again, and you are powerless to do anything about it, will hopefully steer away any aspirant code-compliers from falling for your troll scams.

Still waiting,
WW



You are SEVERELY overestimating your importance. Noone is paying attention to you because you are an afk bot aspirant who contributes nothing to the sandbox or the community. You might as well be an NPC. Or an antimatter dumpster. Either way, not worth more than 30 seconds of the Order's time, and even then only if they feel like using you to create content for the real EvE players. HTH.



Also you guys do not exactly have a strong Amarr presence at the moment.

Just saying.


Amarr space sucks. I stick with the dirty hippies down in Sinq. The chicks are easier and the weed is better.

...

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#157 - 2014-03-20 00:47:26 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:


Also you guys do not exactly have a strong Amarr presence at the moment.

Just saying.


Idk about anyone else, but most of my ganking alts start out Gallente. Quite naturally as a consequence, Caldari and Gallente space is heavily patrolled since it's much more intertwined than Amarr/Minmatar space is.

Amarr space does have a healthy amount of ganking, however. I have a couple of characters out there and I rarely go a day without seeing a decent gank nearby Amarr.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#158 - 2014-03-20 01:46:39 UTC
CODE content creation .....


lol.

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#159 - 2014-03-20 02:44:13 UTC
Bing Bangboom wrote:
Despite the fine efforts of so many New Order members and supporters there is still such a vast sea of misunderstanding and ignorance out there. I know a lot of it is willfully refusing to accept that we mean what we say because "principle!" and "honor!" but some of it appears to be just plain not-getting-it.

I think no one will argue with the statement that there are players in Eve who believe they should be able to safely PvE in highsec without interference from other players. These players are concentrated in three areas. 1) The players who AFK autopilot between systems, mainly haulers, 2) the players who run missions in expensive, over-fitted non-PvP ships and of course 3) the max yield ice and ore miners. They often compound their stupidity by doing these activities with pods full of expensive implants chosen to maximize their ISK generation. Each of these types of players thumbs their nose at the idea that they are doing something provably stupid, despite Eve's long history of separating these foolish people from their assets.

None of this would be a problem if they didn't fly to the petition page and the forums ( and the comments section of www.minerbumping.com) to demand changes to the game that would prevent them from having to take actual actions themselves to prevent another sudden but justifiable loss of their precious ISK.

And THAT wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't clear that CCP has been listening to them. In what is certainly an attempt to carve out a safe space for the risk adverse (and their subscriptions) we have seen numerous changes to highsec that have been obvious concessions to the "highsec should be safe" crowd. Increased EHP built into the mining ships, massive ore holds, CONCORD response times buffed, can-flipping agro changes, and, of all things, a safety button were put in to save the carebears from themselves and their dumb activities.

And so, there is the New Order of Highsec. Pushing back. Not just against the players but the people who decide the things in the previous paragraphs were good ideas. Somebody care to explain how any of those things made Eve a better game? How it matches with the dark, dangerous universe? How it isn't something Blizzard would do?

We say we are against the AFKers and the bot aspirants. Its what we call people who think highsec is or should be safe. We call them bot aspirants for two reasons. One because what they do is barely different from a bot, ie a click or two every 45 minutes. Two because they WOULD bot if CCP allowed it. I know, they claim they would NEVER bot. But the truth is, if CCP put a macro function into Eve that allowed them to automate their PvE, they would use it. For many, the whole point is to make ISK while doing something else. Many miners have moved so close to being bots they are indistinguishable to the observer. And the bots hide amongst them in clear sight as no one can tell the difference.

So, finally, we get to the permits. Despite the clear history of the New Order where James has told us the permits exist because CCP REQUIRED James to create a profit aspect of the Code it serves another useful purpose. It allows us Agents to tell who is with us and who is against us. Who supports us and who supports the bot aspirants. When I see a miner without a permit I recognize him as someone who supports a safe highsec, afk play and bot aspirancy. I cheerfully bump or gank said player because he is the ENEMY of this game. For his own selfish reasons, he is willing to turn Eve into a theme-park.

I, for one, will hunt down people like this and drive them wailing into the wilderness. Or back to their safe on-line games. Eve is better off without them. And I am definitely not roleplaying when I say this.

Highsec is worth fighting for.

Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable




Exactly this.

I encountered someone mining just a couple days ago on my scout. While slowboating my scout toward them, I looked at their bio and saw a permit listed there.

Solely because of that, I chose to gank a different miner in the same anomoly.

Their permit saved them a 160m Mackinaw plus whatever their fittings were worth (probably 15m) and cost one of their rivals a Covetor (~40m fitted).


This is not ISK Progressquest. And highsec is worth killing for.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#160 - 2014-03-20 04:11:24 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Whiney Drivel.

This is GD
F&ID is elsewhere