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Crime & Punishment

 
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I have a dream

Author
Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
#1 - 2014-03-17 18:21:28 UTC
Patch 3.0 Thermopylae

Under continued assault from the sanshas, the empires have been weakened and are fallen back. Concord has withdrawn into "true sec" a grouping of 0.9-1.0 systems surrounding the tutorial hubs and is no longer present elsewhere in highsec as their manpower is stretched beyond breaking point. While faction police forces still patrol the gates of highsec and will enforce the law against criminals capsulers are advised to look to their own defenses. In response to these increased dangers manufactors of civilian shipping are increasing the defenses of the ships they build.

patch notes:
Freighters and industrials are now immune to warp disruption. Freighters now have increased defenses and will require a significant number of attackers to bring down.
Mining barges have expanded drone bays for self defense purposes and increased ehps.

pve players are urged to group up for their own protection and to encourage this the way missions are accepted, run and turned in has been altered such that it can and should be done in fleets with npcs/rewards being adjusted for the number of fleet members.

Will gank for food

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#2 - 2014-03-17 18:32:35 UTC
While I'm hesitant to have concord pull out of any area, it would be cool to have an area that uses faction police instead of concord.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!

Christian Lionbate
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-03-19 10:13:15 UTC
Not sure C&P is the right place for this discussion but I think random, hi-sec, wildcat strikes by Concord over, say, pay and conditions would produce some interesting game play not to mention tears.
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2014-03-19 12:42:59 UTC
Maybe instead of a blanket industrials are scram immune, make a player deployable warp accel gate. Once anchored it can be used to greatly speed up that freighters warp time. However it needs to be setup and then guarded to be any use. Thus adding conflict points for both white knights and for pirates to permit or stop freighter travel through a system.

Yes that is a very rough idea and would need a LOT of discussion on how to make it work.
cpt Varox
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-03-19 14:14:03 UTC  |  Edited by: cpt Varox
Awesome reference name for the dream patch! All players named Angus are KOS for all concord forces :))
Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
#6 - 2014-03-19 14:51:22 UTC
Christian Lionbate wrote:
Not sure C&P is the right place for this discussion but I think random, hi-sec, wildcat strikes by Concord over, say, pay and conditions would produce some interesting game play not to mention tears.


I posted it here as I wanted you guys involved in the discussion. Removing concord from the majority of high sec while increasing the abilty of pve players to defend themselves/avoid ganks directly affects high sec pvpers/gankers and its your current game play that would be altered the most.

Will gank for food

Real Serious PVPer
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-03-19 14:52:48 UTC
The day concord retires is the day I'll have to step in and keep order.

[b] Serious about being serious- Putting the "P "into PVP one fight at a time.  MUFC[/b]

Black Locust
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2014-03-19 15:08:29 UTC
Why cant people just say "I want more easy targets" and be done with it?
Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
#9 - 2014-03-19 16:29:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarojan
Black Locust wrote:
Why cant people just say "I want more easy targets" and be done with it?


Because thats not what this is about? The current situation (ie concord) is based around ganking miners, haulers, newbies and mission runners.

Newbies and mission runners are often tricked into allowing a pvp ship to engage their pve ship due to poor understanding of the aggression mechanics. That makes them free loot and people cant assist them against the ganker due to concord.

Miners and haulers are being ganked (as well as bling fit mission boats) when a combination of too high value cargo for the tank they have equipped makes the gank profitable. That I have no problem with and nor does any other intelligent player I have spoken to yet. Its simple piracy and easily handled by tanking your ship properly. What has changed though is that a certain part of the high sec pvp community has stopped ganking for profit and has started ganking for giggles, ie no longer piracy but arguably griefing. Using dessies to suicide gank newbies in ventures/rookie ships/shuttles and dropping tornados on empty badgers (tank fit or not) can carry no expectation of profit.


However hilarious it is to read the tears, the naivety of the victims (you cant do this!) and their self entitlement (you cant do this to ME! CCP change the game!!!1), I have to recognise that:
a) one day Im going to get 2 tornados dropped on my tanky badger carrying its "4 large crates of polytextiles" and fail my mission
b) it will be done purely because someone wants to see me blow up
c) theres nothing I can do about it.

I have no problem with A and B, I would like to do something about C. Concord cant defend me. I would like the option of defending myself

Will gank for food

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#10 - 2014-03-19 17:14:39 UTC

I once had a dream that I solo'd an erebus with a velator.

And I think my dream is much more likely to happen than yours.
Winchester Steele
#11 - 2014-03-19 19:21:48 UTC
Real Serious PVPer wrote:
The day concord retires is the day I'll have to step in and keep order.



We already have a Supreme Protector, sorry. Maybe you should challenge him to a duel for supremacy of Hi-Sec though? Assuming that you can pass the trials three, of course.

...

Kiryen O'Bannon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2014-03-19 19:44:15 UTC
Black Locust wrote:
Why cant people just say "I want more easy targets" and be done with it?


Well, you're being somewhat unfair to the OP, who is not asking for that. The problem is the large attacker community that will be all for this, except for the part about making it easier for defenders to defend themselves, and come up with ideas like the "freighter warp accelerator thingy" to disguise that.

How long does that thing take to online, activate, and how long does it need to be defended? How much does it cost? How does one get it back, or is it just an expended item that possible becomes free loot for attackers? Wouldn't one need a new one for every single jump? How does this affect profits for freighter pilots?

If it takes anywhere near as long to set up and activate as a webbed freighter already does to align, it's totally worthless, both for its intended purpose and as a "conflict driver" which isn't needed anyhow if you're already making it possible to attack people without CONCORD replying. It's a fairly clear example of just saying "make it hard for the defender" and disguising it with memes about driving conflict - very one-sided conflict.

The OP has interesting ideas, but any approach to this would take an almost total re-look at combat in general, and giving the defenders greater self-defense ability to compensate has to be done without causing problems in lowsec and nullsec, not making bigger ships overpowered, and without simultaneously buffing the attackers to the point that slf-defense is pro-forma.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.

Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2014-03-19 20:32:41 UTC
I can see the points about being over used cliche "conflict". But I think we can agree that giving freighters and any other industrial warp disruption immunity can be construed as just a means to prevent them being killed.

As stated it would be a complex item to suggest and was off the cuff. But if freighters were moving with a team to web them then they were already operating with support. It is the solo freighter who seems to be the ultimate winner in this case, and that runs counter to what the OP suggests.

Perhaps a better means would be to dramatically boost freighter resists. This would make the time to kill substantially longer allowing for a defence force to save it, while not making freighter bowling the only way to tackle one.
Dearthair
Goibhniu Industries
#14 - 2014-03-19 21:45:51 UTC
One idea for the "accel gate" thing. Make it a new type of mobile structure. Activating it creates an unconditional cloaked warp to a safe location a few AU away (ship lands cloaked, but does not cloak before jumping). Alignment and speed of a ship does not matter, nor does distance from the device as long as you are within activation range when you activate it. Does not work inside bubbles. Potential balancing factors:

- HP of the device. If it is destroyed before the warp occurs, ship does not warp.
- Time for device to become active after dropped.
- Time for warp to occur after activated.
- Activation range (ship could possibly be bumped out of activation range after dropping but before device became active)
- Whether an allied pilot could drop the device in advance, or whether only the dropping pilot could activate
- Size of the device (should be large enough that PvP pilots won't carry it to escape a bad situation, only industrials and freighters trying to reach safety)
- Cost of the device (should be high enough that it wouldn't be used every jump to save time, only in emergencies)

NBLID (Not Blue Let It Die), the new motto for miners, manufacturers, and retailers everywhere.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#15 - 2014-03-19 21:54:26 UTC
EHP buffs really aren't the way to go, at least if you want alpha ships to be at all useful. If EHP is buffed too much then the attacked ship can burn back to the gate and lose its attackers. Even if concord is removed or has higher response times, gate guns will make it extremely difficult for gankers to stay alive long enough for help to arrive for either side.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!

Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#16 - 2014-03-19 22:01:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Adoulin
This will never happen, but we can all dream.

My dream CCP patch?

Outlaw players (technically -2 secstatus or below, but mostly the fullblown -5 or worse) are allowed to shoot anyone in hisec/losec, anyone at all, since anyone can shoot at them........ie, they don't get CONCORDED/sentry gunned.

I mean, they are supposed to be outlaws.......CONCORD doesn't hunt them until they attack somebody, faction police are the reason they have to move fast.

So since they ARE Outlaws, let them be Outlaws.

I mean, if you are an Outlaw, anybody in empire space can pop you. Might as well be some benefit to it.

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#17 - 2014-03-19 22:31:40 UTC
A CONCORD strike sounds like a great idea.

Perhaps there could be a CONCORD labor dispute over the amount of work they have to do in Jita and the danger of going near smartbombs that could lead to them placing workbans on attending any spaceship violence in that system.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#18 - 2014-03-19 23:18:27 UTC
Let's involve the players and do a live event. Concord chooses their bravest 300 captains, for a final stand. They will all be officer fit (but regular stats) and players will signup to attack them with huge player run fleets. The ships will be full of all sorts of treasures.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.

Kiryen O'Bannon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2014-03-20 03:38:57 UTC
Froggy Storm wrote:
I can see the points about being over used cliche "conflict". But I think we can agree that giving freighters and any other industrial warp disruption immunity can be construed as just a means to prevent them being killed.


I think it's pretty obvious that was not it's intent. You'd have to kill them in a running battle, but they'd be killable. Freighters are so cumbersome that to keep them useful under such conditions they'd need fairly reliable means of escape.

[QuoteAs stated it would be a complex item to suggest and was off the cuff. But if freighters were moving with a team to web them then they were already operating with support. It is the solo freighter who seems to be the ultimate winner in this case, and that runs counter to what the OP suggests. [/quote] The time issue is nearly insurmountable for this proposal.

Quote:
Perhaps a better means would be to dramatically boost freighter resists. This would make the time to kill substantially longer allowing for a defence force to save it, while not making freighter bowling the only way to tackle one.
Still ridiculously easy to pin one down and kill it. For OP to work, tackling across the entire game would need serious examination.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#20 - 2014-03-20 03:55:21 UTC
Winchester Steele wrote:
Real Serious PVPer wrote:
The day concord retires is the day I'll have to step in and keep order.



We already have a Supreme Protector, sorry. Maybe you should challenge him to a duel for supremacy of Hi-Sec though? Assuming that you can pass the trials three, of course.


I was out of the loop for a while, has anyone ever passed the trials three?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

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