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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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The wormhole and t3 thread.

First post
Author
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#1 - 2014-03-19 05:21:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Caleb Seremshur
This thread was inevitable. The rebalance of eve online is a comprehensive re-write from the ground up. We saw it initially as a change to some basic ships wherein it quickly progressed to things like FW, gun mining and exploration loot tables. In the years since the initiative was launched only very minor thought has been publicly expressed towards t3 concepts and to wormholes.

So let's blow this out of the water.

I had an idea at work about a fundamental change to wormhole loot. The premise is simple: T3 drones and drone modules. Sleepers are drones themselvea after all so it is thematically appropriate. How does it work? Sleeper loot can now alternatively be used to build T3 drones and modules instead of strat cruisers.

Why? Because drones are fairly valuable all over the game. Because strat cruisers don't need the kind of attention that drones do. Because wormholes desperately need a better reason for living there. So we Incentivise through new material that requires new skills and produces new products that like current drones are consumed in large numbers.

So in the interest of game balance let's first place in a limitation: no sleeper sentry. No tech 3 sentry of any kind.

So that leaves us with tech 3 light, medium and heavy drones. What do we make them do to be worth buying over tech 2? Well lets KISS and see them be slightly faster and have better damage application. By only a small percentage. No significant gains in dps or hp. The applied dps they get will make them a preferred choice in many scenarios over the tech 2 raw damage benefits. Expanding on this idea we could take tech 3 drone modules. Examples could include buffs to ecm drones and repper drones. The slightly more esoteric stuff for which no modules currently exist.

On yhe capital scale WH loot could also be used to manufacture t2 fighters and fighter bombers. With similar bonuses to the smaller drones they see an increase in speed and applied damage but otherwise no great buffs in any area.

So there is my idea in a nutshell; t3 drones and modules that are made from wh loot, that are not massively expensive or outright better but different than current drones and operate a bit more efficiently.

While I accept that certain builds will benefit more than most from such drones please be reminded that I did not include sentries or offer hp/dps buffs therefore making blowouts in power much more easily managed should a quick iteration patch be necessary

Ok now tear this idea apart.

addendum; one idea I didn't mention above would be how the loot should function. C1 & C2 wh would produce loot for t3 lights and limited materials for t3 mediums. C3 and C4 drop mostly medium parts with C5 and C6 dropping mostly heavy parts with limited fighter parts. This part of the idea is to increase desirability of low level wh as light drones are used in very high volumes and thus offer a quicker turn over for the wh diver.

My hope is to make day tripping a bit more interesting and viable.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2 - 2014-03-19 05:39:21 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Ok now tear this idea apart.

These can only be used on T3s, right? Shocked

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#3 - 2014-03-19 05:50:24 UTC
They would be usable on all ships. T3 cruisers don't need any more gimmicks. I feel I need to add an addendum
Meandering Milieu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-03-19 05:59:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Meandering Milieu
I can't really agree with no T3 sentries or heavies if we are going to have T3 everything else, even fighters and bombers.

That said, I think T3 application needs to be broader than just drones and drone mods. We need more T2 Destroyers, BCs, and BSes, and T2 caps. Then we need T3 frigs, destros, indy, and BCs at least.

As for T3 mods, I've always had the idea that they should keep the subsystem system. For a mod it would look like:

Performance Subsystem. ( Dictates base value of effectiveness, like %dmg bonus, RoF, Range, ect where applicable. )

Electronics Subsystem. ( Dictates CPU amount needed, where less CPU reduces the amount of bonus from performance subsystem, and more cpu has a smaller penalty. )

Power-grid Subsystem. ( Dictates the amount of powergrid and cap needed for a mod where applicable, as well as slot usage, where less power/cap results in low power slots, and so on. )

Note: All T3 mods in this scenario would be active.

This allows customization of fittings, and unique mods. For instance, on an armor tanked ship, you can manage damage mods in your midslots.

You can manage propulsion mods in your lows too, though they'd likely have less effect than a T2 mid.

A utility highslot finally become more interesting because you can fit more types of mods there.

If done properly, which is the key here, it would balance itself out, because fitting requirements, combined with all T3 mods being active, should make certain things prohibitive.

This solution makes things far more creative, free, adds customization, and should balance itself unless devs were outright derpy about the bonuses they give.

Considering your average T2 mod costs between 1-5mil, I would be happy with 15-40m T3 mods based on size/subsystems.
Blodhgarm Dethahal
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#5 - 2014-03-19 13:46:34 UTC
I better start investing in Nanoribbons.. with all these new T3 ideas floating around..
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-03-19 15:55:36 UTC
No. Why complicate an already complex issue... Remember that T3 need to do 2 things which makes them special: 1) have low mass despite having BC stats, 2) be tanky enough to hold thier own in capital escalation sleepers. If CCP want to nerf T3 they need to nerf sleepers (but then there will be no point in flying T3...).

We need to figure out how to rebalance T3 without making them useless in WH space. If CCP goes with thier plan to make T3 somewhere between T1 and Navy ships then there will be no point in flying them in WH and pilots will switch to HAC and Command ships...
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#7 - 2014-03-19 16:06:42 UTC
so you want to take just combat/heavy drones, give them a tracking buff, and call them t3 drones?

no thanks.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Torijace
The Upside Down
#8 - 2014-03-19 16:16:50 UTC
T3 mods shouldn't compete directly with faction mods, ideally t3 mods should do something different that complements the ship type.

I could see t3 ammo changing damage types, T3 tractors beams being allowed to tractor other ships scaled by mass. T3 shield extenders could providing the same ehp but less sig penelity vs T2. You could also keep the same T3 sp point reduction and apply it to the specific skill related to the mod i.e. a T3 damage control takes level 5 hull upgrades from you.

Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#9 - 2014-03-19 16:23:54 UTC
Imo balance comes first, gimmicks later. They already introduced cloakable, insanely tanked reconbattlecruisers, shrank their sig and gave them the shortest train imaginable.

Unless that is fixed, rather like to see the game evolving on the meta0-5, T1/T2level cause yet alone the sp-loss clearly indicates that those ships aren't meant to be flown outside of ganks (Attacking 6 Battlecruisers in a 100mn tengu is still *I ganked a bunch of BCs/BSs*, or atleast that's what it feels like doing this in my experience)
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#10 - 2014-03-19 16:35:30 UTC
Cassius Invictus wrote:
. If CCP goes with thier plan to make T3 somewhere between T1 and Navy ships then there will be no point in flying them in WH and pilots will switch to HAC and Command ships...


in-between T2 and navy is the plan in terms of power for bonuses and tank...

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-03-19 17:00:56 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Cassius Invictus wrote:
. If CCP goes with thier plan to make T3 somewhere between T1 and Navy ships then there will be no point in flying them in WH and pilots will switch to HAC and Command ships...


in-between T2 and navy is the plan in terms of power for bonuses and tank...


They have never said anything about where they want the tank of the ships. The only clue they have given us is the diagram of progression where T3 are side by side to navy ships which are above T1 and slightly below T2.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#12 - 2014-03-19 17:02:26 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Cassius Invictus wrote:
. If CCP goes with thier plan to make T3 somewhere between T1 and Navy ships then there will be no point in flying them in WH and pilots will switch to HAC and Command ships...


in-between T2 and navy is the plan in terms of power for bonuses and tank...


They have never said anything about where they want the tank of the ships. The only clue they have given us is the diagram of progression where T3 are side by side to navy ships which are above T1 and slightly below T2.


it shows how much attention you have paid then doesn't it :P
but seriously CCP Ytterbium has said this on the forums and on presentations.. look it up dude

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-03-19 17:18:35 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Cassius Invictus wrote:
. If CCP goes with thier plan to make T3 somewhere between T1 and Navy ships then there will be no point in flying them in WH and pilots will switch to HAC and Command ships...


in-between T2 and navy is the plan in terms of power for bonuses and tank...


They have never said anything about where they want the tank of the ships. The only clue they have given us is the diagram of progression where T3 are side by side to navy ships which are above T1 and slightly below T2.


it shows how much attention you have paid then doesn't it :P
but seriously CCP Ytterbium has said this on the forums and on presentations.. look it up dude

CCP has not mentioned T3 in well over a year, if you can link otherwise do so.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#14 - 2014-03-19 21:53:57 UTC
Cassius Invictus wrote:
No. Why complicate an already complex issue... Remember that T3 need to do 2 things which makes them special: 1) have low mass despite having BC stats, 2) be tanky enough to hold thier own in capital escalation sleepers. If CCP want to nerf T3 they need to nerf sleepers (but then there will be no point in flying T3...).

We need to figure out how to rebalance T3 without making them useless in WH space. If CCP goes with thier plan to make T3 somewhere between T1 and Navy ships then there will be no point in flying them in WH and pilots will switch to HAC and Command ships...


Why do you think some cruiser should be entitled to this kind of power? Where do battleships fit im tp the picture?

What makes you favourite toy so special? Give t3 ships a 8x multiplier to train and then perhaps your skill investment might start to match mine
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#15 - 2014-03-20 12:08:30 UTC
I have removed a accidental double post.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)