EVE General Discussion

It's all perspective and there is nothing inherently wrong with what they are doing. They very we'll could be the good guys ensuring that everyone in highsec is aware it isn't safe and EvE isn't a theme park.

All just a matter of opinion, but in general people believe the opinions they offer.

Multibox ice mining needs some addressing. Ive run the numbers, and Ice Mining is a frankly a ridiculously profitable activity that scales with multiple accounts, as compared to the very low risk of high sec PvP and the ease of doing it due to the predictable nature of the Ice belts. Furthermore Ice Mining fleet fits are very cheap in comparison to the emminently regular and predictable profit that fleet generates.

My personal simplest solution that does not directly change mining mechanics is this:

-Make Ice Belts sweeping random Anomalies, more or less the same as other Ore Anomalies.

This raises the threshold slightly for multiboxers, and aligns ice mining with other mining activities.

Though it makes systematic harvesting of Ice a bit more difficult, owing to having to first locate the fields and then move the fleet, it has a hidden incentive for miners as well.

This is that it also becomes more difficult for TNO and other gankers to find their targets.

I think this is a sufficient starting solution that fits the precedents of the game and offers a unilaterally equitable exchange of interests between miners/gankers/multiboxers and the community at large.

It is however arguable that the very reason Ice Belts are stationary in certain systems is to ENCOURAGE PvP against the miners there, because it makes the belts predictable and essentially a set arena where Ice Miners find their product, and gankers find their prey. That being as it may, I still think applying my suggestion improves the status quo.

As to the activities of TNO and others like them, I they are legit and acceptable within the games context.
TNOs organisational structure is, quite frankly, ingenius. Not only that, but the entire ethos James315 has built around it, is in my opinion, a great example of a sandbox game at its finest. I fully support its legitimacy within the game, though I am not foolish enough ofc to actually donate to it, as indeed I would not "donate" to any other Corp without a certain return on investment.

Use of "throwaway alts" is a bannable offense. We don't do that.

As for "thrasher or catalysts ganking barges", what else are we supposed to use? They cried hard enough to get the barges (and especially the exhumers) EHP buffed to such absurd levels that it's not economical or intelligent to use much anything else.

And as for the guy with the Talos fleet, good for him. Glad to see stuff like that now and again.

Oh no, an irrelevant miner is mining afk somewhere in highsec! Whatever shall we do?!

Praise James for bringing us this hilarious post, and this excellent thread.

I like to wait a week or so between reading it, that way it builds up some good stories in between. I damn near laughed myself to death on last November's stuff, I will say that much.

Uh oh guys, I guess if we miss that one guy, that means all the people we've killed and all the permits we've sold in the last 12+ months aren't relevant. Such sadness, much chagrin.

Eve has a lot of funny stuff like this.

This New Order is a double scam and you don't see may of this. On one hand they scam the miners that buy their permits. Of course the may be very few miners that bought permits as anyone can make an alt and claim that alt purchased a permit.

On the other hand they sell their own shares to Eve players and keep the PR campaign running to sell some more. From what they published on their site they should have some 700+ players caught in this. And one of this days James will close the door on another one of scam and empty the wallet.

In case you haven't seen one of this share scams google "South Sea Company"

Typically? 10 million isk.

Despite the fine efforts of so many New Order members and supporters there is still such a vast sea of misunderstanding and ignorance out there. I know a lot of it is willfully refusing to accept that we mean what we say because "principle!" and "honor!" but some of it appears to be just plain not-getting-it.

I think no one will argue with the statement that there are players in Eve who believe they should be able to safely PvE in highsec without interference from other players. These players are concentrated in three areas. 1) The players who AFK autopilot between systems, mainly haulers, 2) the players who run missions in expensive, over-fitted non-PvP ships and of course 3) the max yield ice and ore miners. They often compound their stupidity by doing these activities with pods full of expensive implants chosen to maximize their ISK generation. Each of these types of players thumbs their nose at the idea that they are doing something provably stupid, despite Eve's long history of separating these foolish people from their assets.

None of this would be a problem if they didn't fly to the petition page and the forums ( and the comments section of www.minerbumping.com) to demand changes to the game that would prevent them from having to take actual actions themselves to prevent another sudden but justifiable loss of their precious ISK.

And THAT wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't clear that CCP has been listening to them. In what is certainly an attempt to carve out a safe space for the risk adverse (and their subscriptions) we have seen numerous changes to highsec that have been obvious concessions to the "highsec should be safe" crowd. Increased EHP built into the mining ships, massive ore holds, CONCORD response times buffed, can-flipping agro changes, and, of all things, a safety button were put in to save the carebears from themselves and their dumb activities.

And so, there is the New Order of Highsec. Pushing back. Not just against the players but the people who decide the things in the previous paragraphs were good ideas. Somebody care to explain how any of those things made Eve a better game? How it matches with the dark, dangerous universe? How it isn't something Blizzard would do?

We say we are against the AFKers and the bot aspirants. Its what we call people who think highsec is or should be safe. We call them bot aspirants for two reasons. One because what they do is barely different from a bot, ie a click or two every 45 minutes. Two because they WOULD bot if CCP allowed it. I know, they claim they would NEVER bot. But the truth is, if CCP put a macro function into Eve that allowed them to automate their PvE, they would use it. For many, the whole point is to make ISK while doing something else. Many miners have moved so close to being bots they are indistinguishable to the observer. And the bots hide amongst them in clear sight as no one can tell the difference.

So, finally, we get to the permits. Despite the clear history of the New Order where James has told us the permits exist because CCP REQUIRED James to create a profit aspect of the Code it serves another useful purpose. It allows us Agents to tell who is with us and who is against us. Who supports us and who supports the bot aspirants. When I see a miner without a permit I recognize him as someone who supports a safe highsec, afk play and bot aspirancy. I cheerfully bump or gank said player because he is the ENEMY of this game. For his own selfish reasons, he is willing to turn Eve into a theme-park.

I, for one, will hunt down people like this and drive them wailing into the wilderness. Or back to their safe on-line games. Eve is better off without them. And I am definitely not roleplaying when I say this.

Highsec is worth fighting for.

Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable

Wow.. 7 pages of thoughtful intercourse about the validity of permits, the CODE, ganking, industry, afk, and botting. But all that matters is this:

What will it take to get the guy bumping or ganking you to stop?

It matters not what his ideology is. Telling him "permits are worthless" or "you can't own hisec" doesn't stop him from bumping or ganking you. Arguing philosophy on the forums isn't likely to do much to improve the EHP of your barge, so you may want to consider what in-game actions you want to take instead. I for one think you should buy a permit and fly with the Code in your heart and on your finger tips.