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Solo PVP among larger class ships?

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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#81 - 2014-03-19 10:53:01 UTC
If you're trying to force frigs into non-consensual player interaction, why would you be using a BS anyway? It's not the right tool for the job. It seems you won't be satisfied until T1 BS is the right tool for every job. Screw everything else, right?

Oh god.
embrel
BamBam Inc.
#82 - 2014-03-19 10:54:15 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:

You know, the whole eve culture of avoiding all risk to yourself while capitalizing on the risks of others.



this is called rational IRL.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2014-03-19 10:57:04 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
If you're trying to force frigs into non-consensual player interaction, why would you be using a BS anyway? It's not the right tool for the job. It seems you won't be satisfied until T1 BS is the right tool for every job. Screw everything else, right?

Stop trying to derail the thread. Nobody is saying BS should be able to force a frig into combat.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2014-03-19 10:59:01 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
If you're trying to force frigs into non-consensual player interaction, why would you be using a BS anyway? It's not the right tool for the job. It seems you won't be satisfied until T1 BS is the right tool for every job. Screw everything else, right?

Stop trying to derail the thread. Nobody is saying BS should be able to force a frig into combat.


No, of course not, you're just complaining that they can't. Completely different to trying to force it to be so because you're not a dev, so you can't force **** anyway.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#85 - 2014-03-19 10:59:52 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Stop trying to derail the thread. Nobody is saying BS should be able to force a frig into combat.

So your comparison was not just inaccurate, but pointless, then.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2014-03-19 11:00:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
How are your BS locking times so long?

They're base stats on unfitted ships.


Well in action I can tell you it does not take 8 seconds to lock a BS. I lock cruisers in that time and frigates aren't that far off 8 seconds either.

We'll this thread is entitled "Solo PvP among larger class ships" so given your a goon and you have no solo BS kills afaik and you're always in a huge blob likely with info warefare links and you're able to do away with some crucial mid slots that soloers are not able to you can probably afford to fit a sebo as well.

Try fitting a sensor booster on a Mega with 4 mids when you need MWD, Scram, Web and Cap Injector.


This is nothing but anti-goon spittle. I'll bet you made this assertion without even looking at his KB. Well, I'm not a goon, and I solo often, lately using a Nightmare occasionally, with no sebo, and I'm with Baltec. You've got the wrong stats.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#87 - 2014-03-19 11:00:36 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

We'll this thread is entitled "Solo PvP among larger class ships" so given your a goon and you have no solo BS kills afaik and you're always in a huge blob likely with info warefare links and you're able to do away with some crucial mid slots that soloers are not able to you can probably afford to fit a sebo as well.

Try fitting a sensor booster on a Mega with 4 mids when you need MWD, Scram, Web and Cap Injector.


I wouldn't go solo in a mega.

I would use a raven which I have been experimenting with and have already been flying solo in low sec. I also haven't been bothering with a sebo, there are better things I can use that slot for. See, I have vast experience with BS hulls and adapting them to new tasks most think unwise. The problem most people have with BS is that they simply do not know what to do with them and give up after they look at EFT numbers.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2014-03-19 11:02:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
If you're trying to force frigs into non-consensual player interaction, why would you be using a BS anyway? It's not the right tool for the job. It seems you won't be satisfied until T1 BS is the right tool for every job. Screw everything else, right?

Stop trying to derail the thread. Nobody is saying BS should be able to force a frig into combat.


No, of course not, you're just complaining that they can't. Completely different to trying to force it to be so because you're not a dev, so you can't force **** anyway.

Show me where I complained that battleships can't force frigates into non-consensual pvp? I explained with in game data how adding a sensorbooster to a battlecruiser can allow the battlecruiser to force an engagement to all ships bar frigates.

I also explained how fitting a sensor booster similarly to a battleship only increases the engagement envelope from BS only to BS and BC.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#89 - 2014-03-19 11:12:35 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
If you're trying to force frigs into non-consensual player interaction, why would you be using a BS anyway? It's not the right tool for the job. It seems you won't be satisfied until T1 BS is the right tool for every job. Screw everything else, right?

Stop trying to derail the thread. Nobody is saying BS should be able to force a frig into combat.


No, of course not, you're just complaining that they can't. Completely different to trying to force it to be so because you're not a dev, so you can't force **** anyway.

Show me where I complained that battleships can't force frigates into non-consensual pvp? I explained with in game data how adding a sensorbooster to a battlecruiser can allow the battlecruiser to force an engagement to all ships bar frigates.

I also explained how fitting a sensor booster similarly to a battleship only increases the engagement envelope from BS only to BS and BC.


But your numbers are wrong.

Your locking times are very different to what I get in game when fighting people.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#90 - 2014-03-19 11:16:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
baltec1 wrote:
Your locking times are very different to what I get in game when fighting people.
To be fair, the people you're fighting have probably done such outlandish and unexpected things as tanked their shields or (gasp!) used MWDs… so those experiences are obviously not representative of any kid of realistic fight. Blink
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2014-03-19 11:17:32 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
If you're trying to force frigs into non-consensual player interaction, why would you be using a BS anyway? It's not the right tool for the job. It seems you won't be satisfied until T1 BS is the right tool for every job. Screw everything else, right?

Stop trying to derail the thread. Nobody is saying BS should be able to force a frig into combat.


No, of course not, you're just complaining that they can't. Completely different to trying to force it to be so because you're not a dev, so you can't force **** anyway.

Show me where I complained that battleships can't force frigates into non-consensual pvp? I explained with in game data how adding a sensorbooster to a battlecruiser can allow the battlecruiser to force an engagement to all ships bar frigates.

I also explained how fitting a sensor booster similarly to a battleship only increases the engagement envelope from BS only to BS and BC.


But your numbers are wrong.

Your locking times are very different to what I get in game when fighting people.

My numbers are spot on. I got them from jumping into a raven and locking the ships, then I cross checked them with EFT. They're close to spot on.

Also looking at your kills on BC and ZKill you're not doing very well with the solo Raven. The last 10 pages only show 1 kill in a raven vs frig.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#92 - 2014-03-19 11:19:58 UTC
Tippia wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Your locking times are very different to what I get in game when fighting people.
To be fair, the people you're fighting have probably done such outlandish and unexpected things as tanked their shields or (gasp!) used MWDs… so those experiences are obviously not representative. Blink

If they're using mwd then they're not trying to flee. The issue is forcing an engagement, not locking ships that are activating mwd and trying to fight. And shield tanked sig does not significantly increase lock times for battleships on sub bc hulls.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#93 - 2014-03-19 11:23:58 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Nobody is saying BS should be able to force a frig into combat.


Infinity Ziona wrote:
1 kill in a raven vs frig.


Uh-huh.

Oh god.
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
#94 - 2014-03-19 11:24:45 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
IMO a battleship should have the highest sensor strength of all sub-cap ships. Not a cruiser.
IMO Battleships should have the longest targeting ranges. Not cruisers.
IMO Battleships should have an even jump in scan resolution decrease like all the other ships.
They do.



I did not ever expect to see Tippia being wrong. Well, happens.

I have bolded the important part. "ALL sub-cap ships." Clearly this does not hold true so the point of Infinity Ziona is valid.


What many people consider 1v1 in pvp is actually 1vs1 in terms of cost. Battleship vs battleship is fine as most cost approximately same. Battleship vs gang of 10 frigates where the chances are more or less equal would be what many new people expect. However that is not how EvE works.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#95 - 2014-03-19 11:27:38 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
If they're using mwd then they're not trying to flee. The issue is forcing an engagement, not locking ships that are activating mwd and trying to fight. And shield tanked sig does not significantly increase lock times for battleships on sub bc hulls.
If they're using MWDs, they're just planning on moving around — fleeing might not have been what they planned on before it became a necessity.
And the sig increase for shield tanking reduces the lock time far more when its done on small ships than on larger ones, you know that right? A 25m increase on a 125m ship makes for a far bigger increase than on a 400m ship…
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2014-03-19 11:27:51 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Nobody is saying BS should be able to force a frig into combat.


Infinity Ziona wrote:
1 kill in a raven vs frig.


Uh-huh.

Lol. Obfuscation much?

Show me where I said, or even remotely implied, that battleships or even battlecruisers, should be able to force a frigate into a non-consensual engagement.

As an aside, ironically, the only ships a battleship CAN force into a non-consensual engagement other than a BC are frigates :)

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2014-03-19 11:30:47 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Nobody is saying BS should be able to force a frig into combat.


Infinity Ziona wrote:
1 kill in a raven vs frig.


Uh-huh.

Lol. Obfuscation much?

Show me where I said, or even remotely implied, that battleships or even battlecruisers, should be able to force a frigate into a non-consensual engagement.

As an aside, ironically, the only ships a battleship CAN force into a non-consensual engagement other than a BC are frigates :)


Then what is it you are actually SAYING? So far, you've just thrown a bunch of numbers up and implied a point, but explicitly made none. Make a point, or GTFO.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#98 - 2014-03-19 11:32:38 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Infinity Ziona wrote:

My numbers are spot on. I got them from jumping into a raven and locking the ships, then I cross checked them with EFT. They're close to spot on.

Also looking at your kills on BC and ZKill you're not doing very well with the solo Raven. The last 10 pages only show 1 kill in a raven vs frig.


I piledrived said raven into a larger than expected gang.

Also, my experiments vs corp members that I did not kill will oddly enough not shot up on said killboards. I will also say again that I do not take 8 seconds to lock a BS, I lock cruisers in that time. Your numbers do not add up in game.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2014-03-19 11:33:32 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Nobody is saying BS should be able to force a frig into combat.


Infinity Ziona wrote:
1 kill in a raven vs frig.


Uh-huh.

Lol. Obfuscation much?

Show me where I said, or even remotely implied, that battleships or even battlecruisers, should be able to force a frigate into a non-consensual engagement.

As an aside, ironically, the only ships a battleship CAN force into a non-consensual engagement other than a BC are frigates :)


Then what is it you are actually SAYING? So far, you've just thrown a bunch of numbers up and implied a point, but explicitly made none. Make a point, or GTFO.

Go away troll. My point was clearly made. A lock time of 106mm for a Raven (or any other battleship) is too low for any chance of non-consentual pvp against non-BS subcaps.

If you can't fathom the point from my original post then its not my points that are lacking.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#100 - 2014-03-19 11:35:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Shpenat wrote:
I did not ever expect to see Tippia being wrong. Well, happens.

I have bolded the important part. "ALL sub-cap ships." Clearly this does not hold true so the point of Infinity Ziona is valid.
Oh, I know. I was hoping that he'd harp on that one a bit more so I could explain his mistake.

And his point isn't particularly valid — there's no particular reason why battleships should have the highest sensor strength, especially compared to highly focused ewar ships that have that particular stat as their “hat”. Had he given a reason, his point might have had some validity, but as it is, it's just unsupported and meaningless assertions.

Infinity Ziona wrote:
A lock time of 106mm for a Raven (or any other battleship) is too low for any chance of non-consentual pvp against non-BS subcaps.
Even if that were true (it isn't), so what?