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Wormholes

 
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New Timer for Wormholes

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Author
Mcpate
Unknown Means Unknown Consequenses
#41 - 2014-03-18 14:37:45 UTC
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:
Mcpate wrote:
Pretty stupid idea overall if you ask me..and you did. I guess it is for those not good enough to get it done while the target is in the hole.

Edit:
I think its time for some of these "new Idea" people to move on to WOT, WOW or whatever the FK they want to play while waiting for someone else to 'create their content' or fix the game to work the way they want.



Can you explain why you dislike this idea ?

I only see arguments for this idea here while contraside only says " cuz its stupid"


Fair question so here is a straight answer. I actually like the mechanic because it gives some people a sense of safety. I have engaged plenty of ships on a hisec wh and killed them. And I have killed just as many off the hole as the conflict over the space around the wh spreads deeper into the wh. I have enraged entire wh corps with as few as one bomber pilot.TwistedTwisted Fighting outnumbered by 6 to one is a lot of FKN fun...even if its on a hisec. I've killed everything from pods to carriers using the current mechanics. Changing the mechanic because some wormholers are not smart enough or won't take the time to use advanced tactics takes the game in the wrong direction.

I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell. Harry S. Truman

mechform
#42 - 2014-03-18 14:39:21 UTC
This is not for more fun, its more about aligning the consequences of engaging in pvp to be aligned with similar actions across the game.

Every time a mechanic is changed, content for someone will be affected. The job for ccp would be to generate statistics on whose content will reduced and whose will be enhanced. The 100 or so players that jump from hs to camp the hole and escape when the realized they have bitten off more than they could chew or the 1000 players in wh space. (these are numbers generated solely on my experience, and are only used as an example)

Black Power - Brotha's in space unite!

roxtarr
State War Academy
Caldari State
#43 - 2014-03-18 17:08:46 UTC
There are already mechanics in place for fighting in High Sec. As Jason pointed out, even with a warning window, this will further place wormholes out of the reach of newer players and make industry even more difficult in WH space. I see nothing about this that would increase WH population which should be the ultimate goal of anyone wanting to increase pvp targets.

gudfights should just be expected not to be had on high sec exits.
mechform
#44 - 2014-03-18 17:19:51 UTC  |  Edited by: mechform
Industry can continue as usual, just don't afk sit on a wh, this applies whether this mechanic is in place or not. The only consequence would be for one that engages in pvp.

Once they jump into hs, they have an x timer where they can be engaged by the offended party. If you are indy, don't derp and just jump through the wh before you are locked and you can bear along your beary way.

Black Power - Brotha's in space unite!

Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#45 - 2014-03-18 17:22:57 UTC
roxtarr wrote:
There are already mechanics in place for fighting in High Sec. As Jason pointed out, even with a warning window, this will further place wormholes out of the reach of newer players and make industry even more difficult in WH space. I see nothing about this that would increase WH population which should be the ultimate goal of anyone wanting to increase pvp targets.

gudfights should just be expected not to be had on high sec exits.


To be fair, I can't think of anytime I saw someone hanging out on a highsec hole that was looking for a "gudfight" Big smile

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Bob Artis
Rolled Out
#46 - 2014-03-18 18:35:55 UTC
Wow lots of good discussion back and forth here. I see great arguments for it and against it.

I just want to point out that while I am in favor of it I didn't come up with this idea. I wish I could point out who suggested it first, but I can't remember.

I know this idea will most likely never even be considered to be implemented, but I do wish CCP could somehow clean up this little over site in PvP. No Weapons or other timer means no risk.
RcTamiya Leontis
Magister Mortalis.
#47 - 2014-03-18 18:55:47 UTC
Mcpate wrote:
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:
Mcpate wrote:
Pretty stupid idea overall if you ask me..and you did. I guess it is for those not good enough to get it done while the target is in the hole.

Edit:
I think its time for some of these "new Idea" people to move on to WOT, WOW or whatever the FK they want to play while waiting for someone else to 'create their content' or fix the game to work the way they want.



Can you explain why you dislike this idea ?

I only see arguments for this idea here while contraside only says " cuz its stupid"


Fair question so here is a straight answer. I actually like the mechanic because it gives some people a sense of safety. I have engaged plenty of ships on a hisec wh and killed them. And I have killed just as many off the hole as the conflict over the space around the wh spreads deeper into the wh. I have enraged entire wh corps with as few as one bomber pilot.TwistedTwisted Fighting outnumbered by 6 to one is a lot of FKN fun...even if its on a hisec. I've killed everything from pods to carriers using the current mechanics. Changing the mechanic because some wormholers are not smart enough or won't take the time to use advanced tactics takes the game in the wrong direction.



Well done :D of course this is a tactic which might work, but how would you engage smart people camping the high sec? they'll just ignore you or jump into HS beeing safe, giggle and look for a new hole to camp :/
Mcpate
Unknown Means Unknown Consequenses
#48 - 2014-03-18 20:08:31 UTC
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:



Well done :D of course this is a tactic which might work, but how would you engage smart people camping the high sec? they'll just ignore you or jump into HS beeing safe, giggle and look for a new hole to camp :/


I'm not going to give all my secrets away here but for starters, a collapsed hole is hard to jump out throughBlink

I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell. Harry S. Truman

Angsty Teenager
Broski North
#49 - 2014-03-18 20:51:02 UTC
Not what the OP is about, but in terms of timers it's always bothered me that the description of WH's lifetime always says it will decay in a couple days, but it's always around 24 hours.

Pls more variability in WH lifetime. I'd like to see WH's exist in lifetimes of between 1 hour - 1 week.
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2014-03-18 21:21:51 UTC
I don't like the idea, to complicated for new players.
Breaks the "safety" of high sec.
Even if you just add a weapons timer that removes you from being able to jump it would not pass in lore.
If you add a weaponstimer wich converts into a state wich you can be attack or attack anyone it could work and woudn't change much.
It would mean that you can continue to fight for 15 minutes but would also mean that no one can dock in hs or can be attacked by anyone in hs.
Wich would mean you could have an army of neutrals on the high sec side read to pounch. Smeel to much like hs wars to me.
To much work for to little gain.

No local in null sec would fix everything!

RcTamiya Leontis
Magister Mortalis.
#51 - 2014-03-18 21:23:58 UTC
Mcpate wrote:
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:



Well done :D of course this is a tactic which might work, but how would you engage smart people camping the high sec? they'll just ignore you or jump into HS beeing safe, giggle and look for a new hole to camp :/


I'm not going to give all my secrets away here but for starters, a collapsed hole is hard to jump out throughBlink



I know about that, but i was talking about smart hostiles, not about those who dont run when an orca is going to collapse their hole due to lack of scouts ....
Aedh Phelan
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2014-03-18 21:25:31 UTC
On the surface, it sounds like a good idea to deal with those people who will camp a hisec exit but will never ever under any circumstance range more than 5000 from the hole.

The part I don't like, if I understand everything correctly, is that a bomber pilot could just spend his career cloaked in jump range of a hisec exit waiting for unarmed haulers heading out. If he can just jump out at the same time as the hauler and have a free kill in hisec it seems wrong.

If I misunderstood part of the mechanic description and Paragraph 2 does not apply, I apologize, ignore it and reference paragraph 1.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#53 - 2014-03-18 21:35:57 UTC
Jay Joringer wrote:


If you can't work with the current mechanics, adjust yourselves to the system instead of adjusting the system to yourself.


I wish you could tell this to the people who refuse to fight in a pulsar.

No trolling please

Lenroc Elisav
Lenny'S TAX evasion 101
#54 - 2014-03-19 09:41:32 UTC
-1
Bad, self centered idea. As it is now everybody has a free pass when jumping in HS, wholers or kspacers alike. Plus highsec folk will camp our supply routes and pick only the transport ship to engage even if it has an escort. How will you handle aggression timers, limited engagement timers and so on? As I said bad idea spawned out of blood lust but not thought through.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#55 - 2014-03-19 10:30:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalel Nimrott
I would invert the load on this one. Why not making the ships that just got out of a wh with a timer that lets them be killed?
It has a double edge in it, since, IE: you could be the one that could be ganked if you leave, but also you can kill those pesky ppl that play hs games.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7

Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2014-03-19 10:41:51 UTC
Kalel Nimrott wrote:
I would invert the load on this one. Why not making the ships that just got out of a wh with a time that lets them be killed?
It has a double edge in it, since, IE: you could be the one that could be ganked if you leave, but also you can kill those pesky ppl that play hs games.
Do you mean giving them suspect timer? That might be a considerably simpler solution than what was originally proposed.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#57 - 2014-03-19 10:44:22 UTC
Could be. But suspect sounds harsh and against the ops thought. I tryed to offer an alternative. And with a little lore. You are gankable couse you are not protected by CONCORD up to 2 or minutes, that is more than enough to kill someone playing hisec games.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7

Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2014-03-19 10:48:21 UTC
So why not give everyone leaving a wormhole to hisec a 2 (or even just 1) minute suspect timer? That means anyone can engage you on the hole, but if you warp out the timer will be gone by the time you arrive to any gate or station.
mechform
#59 - 2014-03-19 10:59:00 UTC
lol, lore.

I think only toons exiting that have an aggression timer should be engaged in hs, this way you can camp the hs hole like you would camp any other hole in the game. But only the toons that have the timer would be able to engage in hs. if you jump before you get locked, the you are not subject to anything, and can warp away at your leisure.

Sure a bomber can launch a bomb and give another player a timer, but I doubt the bomber will be able to jump out and tackle if he's 30 km away, even if his buddies are right on the wh, they will not have any timer so to speak so they will not be able to engage.

Just because something is complicated does not mean we should just dismiss it, this is EVE after all. WH are complicated enough for a newb, I don't think adding one more mechanic will dissuade any new player in either direction.

I am seeing how this may push into the idea that hs is supposed to be 'safe' space. But as of right now this escape is a no consequence PvP zone and is not in line with the rest of in game PvP.

Black Power - Brotha's in space unite!

Mcpate
Unknown Means Unknown Consequenses
#60 - 2014-03-19 11:01:47 UTC
Axloth Okiah wrote:
So why not give everyone leaving a wormhole to hisec a 2 (or even just 1) minute suspect timer? That means anyone can engage you on the hole, but if you warp out the timer will be gone by the time you arrive to any gate or station.



while your doing that, apply the same treatment to anyone jumping from null or low sec into hisec....see how stupid the whole idea is?

I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell. Harry S. Truman