These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

How much military strength is required to hold sovereignty?

Author
Anni Hil-Ator
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-03-19 02:32:56 UTC
I recently saw an "influence" map which roughly shows how much territory is controlled by various corporations.

What I'm wondering is... how much firepower do these various corporations? Perhaps it could be put in terms of the ISK value for their active fleets + defenses of their POS? This would assume the amount of pilots they could get online should their systems come under attack.

And what kind of war fleets do these corporations have? I can't imagine that every one of these corporations have a full compliment of capital class ships. Am I under the wrong impression about this? I'd imagine that some of these corporations have mostly just battleships. But I really don't know. I'm just trying to get an idea of the range of power exhibited by these various corporations which hold sovereignty.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#2 - 2014-03-19 02:34:58 UTC
You are thinking small to be honest.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-03-19 02:42:48 UTC
any where from 1-man renter corporations which have nothing, to 500-man corporations that field multiple fleets at once.

typically a corporation will have 20-40 active dudes at any given time, 200-300 members on the roster, and will field a fleet of 20-30 ships on a CTA, or 5-10 capitals+ support.

Several of these corps together make up a small alliance, which is able to hold a small chunk of sov and can field 10-20 dreads/carriers. There might be a titan or two in there as well belonging to corp CEO or chief financier.

A small alliance like this will only be able to operate under one or another coalition, by the way.

In terms of capital ships - a carrier is only 2bil. Thats 10 battleships' worth of isk. A dread - 3bil. Thats not that much for a corporation to make. There ar 50-50 funding plans sometimes, where corp pays for half a ship... So many, many ways for a corp to fund a capital fleet.

But it takes a while. A month to make enough isk, a month to build. Long-term commitment.

Samuel Caldara
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-03-19 02:47:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Samuel Caldara
You have to be in an alliance to hold sovereignty. Most of the alliances are part of different coalitions (think groups of alliances).

The biggest coalition has upwards of 40,000 members and can field hundreds of capital ships at a time. The last battle big battle for sov had over 6,000 people duking it out.

Each corporation may be able to field maybe one or two dozen capitals at most, but sovereignty is done at a higher level.

To hold sov, you need at least three to four hundred VERY active people. No one is going to give up their space without a good fight and any major space grabs will be met with fierce resistance.

Also - the money for all the POS's PLUS an active fleet can run into the trillions. A titan can run upwards of 100 billion pretty easily and most major coalitions will have more than ten of them.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#5 - 2014-03-19 02:48:45 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:


typically a corporation will have 20-40 active dudes at any given time, 200-300 members on the roster, and will field a fleet of 20-30 ships on a CTA, or 5-10 capitals+ support.

Several of these corps together make up a small alliance, which is able to hold a small chunk of sov and can field 10-20 dreads/carriers. There might be a titan or two in there as well belonging to corp CEO or chief financier.


That group sounds far, far too weak to hold space. 10-20 capitals would be food for anyone who wanted their sov.

For a group to be able to hold space standing alone, it would need to be capable of matching the big players in strategic ops or hold space so bad no one else wants it. For matching the big players, that means, can you see a feasible way to survive when there are 3-4 full hostile fleets in your system?

Small groups can only pull it off if their space is undesireable, so their only real competition is other small entities. By small, I mean a group that could fill a fleet on a scheduled op.

The alternatives are joining a coalition or becoming a renter. In order to join a coalition you need to be active, useful and competent as a group - something that describes maybe 1% of EVE alliances. As for becoming a renter, you just have to be rich and not very bright, or just a group unified by their common love of masochism.
Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
#6 - 2014-03-19 03:24:38 UTC
Q: "How much military strength is required to hold sovereignty?"

A: About half

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#7 - 2014-03-19 03:44:45 UTC
Diplomacy trumps military might in holding sov when you are small (deployable combat asset value under a couple trillion).

Get to the point that you have a thousand players and ten trillion or more in deployable combat assets, and you can dispense with diplomacy.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-03-19 03:54:07 UTC
you will be taken seriously by the big players in the sov game if you can bring 250 dudes in pretty much any subcap doctrine under your own FC. don't expect to be treated with respect or like them, but you will be taken seriously
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#9 - 2014-03-19 03:56:06 UTC
How much military power is enough to hold SOV?

Enough that the other guys will "blink."
And it doesn't always have to be your alliance's military power. There is lots of value in having direct "batphones" to the right people for different situations.
Twenty Five Percent
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-03-19 05:22:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Twenty Five Percent
To get an idea of the kind of military might being thrown around think of this:

In a battle like 6VDT which was the largest in terms of sheer number of pilots in one system the CFC fielded 1000 megathrons + 1000 support/ logistics/ other stuff and then dropped 150 dreads.

I have seen TEST alliance (not as part of a coalition) put over 1300 pilots on the field.

In the battle for HED-GP the CFC & Russians dropped 500 dreads and had 200 more ready to go in.

The capital counts waxed and waned in B-R because the battle raged for a whole day but afterwards when the CFC went home- 100 Titans and 200 supercarriers were observed leaving the south.

Individual corporations contribute their resources- whether it be pilots, builders, BPOs, combat assets, etc. to their alliance and the alliance contributes to a coalition with a vision and direction they believe in.

Throughout the recent southern war, N3 and Pandemic Legion regularly fielded 300+ Archon carrier groups

Is any of this necessary to hold sov? Not really but if any of these guys want what you have and you dont have any relations with any of them- then dont expect your sandcastle to stand for very long Smile
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#11 - 2014-03-19 05:31:40 UTC
Or you could just develop a reputation at being so terrible that no one wants your ****** space. Take CVA for example. Instead of invading, the major powers simply keep the Providence region open as a game reserve.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2014-03-19 05:38:44 UTC
Or just "declare" you own large sections of highsec and charge for permits to rent it out :D

Saves a lot of investment in caps and supers that way :D
RRNL
Perkone
#13 - 2014-03-19 14:04:50 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
any where from 1-man renter corporations which have nothing, to 500-man corporations that field multiple fleets at once.

typically a corporation will have 20-40 active dudes at any given time, 200-300 members on the roster, and will field a fleet of 20-30 ships on a CTA, or 5-10 capitals+ support.

Several of these corps together make up a small alliance, which is able to hold a small chunk of sov and can field 10-20 dreads/carriers. There might be a titan or two in there as well belonging to corp CEO or chief financier.

A small alliance like this will only be able to operate under one or another coalition, by the way.

In terms of capital ships - a carrier is only 2bil. Thats 10 battleships' worth of isk. A dread - 3bil. Thats not that much for a corporation to make. There ar 50-50 funding plans sometimes, where corp pays for half a ship... So many, many ways for a corp to fund a capital fleet.

But it takes a while. A month to make enough isk, a month to build. Long-term commitment.



Good post!


I would like to add: The more isk a Corp, Alliance of Coalition has the more power they have as replacements to lost fleets can be done.
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-03-19 15:08:43 UTC  |  Edited by: knobber Jobbler
Anni Hil-Ator wrote:
I recently saw an "influence" map which roughly shows how much territory is controlled by various corporations.

What I'm wondering is... how much firepower do these various corporations? Perhaps it could be put in terms of the ISK value for their active fleets + defenses of their POS? This would assume the amount of pilots they could get online should their systems come under attack.

And what kind of war fleets do these corporations have? I can't imagine that every one of these corporations have a full compliment of capital class ships. Am I under the wrong impression about this? I'd imagine that some of these corporations have mostly just battleships. But I really don't know. I'm just trying to get an idea of the range of power exhibited by these various corporations which hold sovereignty.


Its not really that easy to summarise. Its much more about what friends you've made, favours you've asked for or pulled in and who you've annoyed. No single corporation by itself would be able to hold sov right now, each corp has to be in an alliance and that alliance within a larger coalition. Providence is probably an exception but they've not been kicked out because no one can be bothered to grind their space - but they exist purely because they're allowed too, not because they could defend themselves against either power bloc. Its a sad state of affairs but true.

Look at the latest addition to SOV: HERO coalition with 14k members and have taken 1 station system. Despite having financial help from established groups, they can't field anything but T1 cruiser fleets, under equipped battleship fleets and have no way to escalate with capitals or use them for grinding structures and not have them die. The guys they took the station from were extremely weak but now HERO is held in check by a vastly smaller number of players. Unfortunately for HERO that numerically inferior force - although bad at EVE - have well oiled doctrines and great FCs. HERO has neither. That all said, EVE sov holding now is nothing like several years ago when a 1000 man alliance could take and hold sov without sucking up to a space Hitler/Stalin.

*edit* Odd how one mass murdering dictator is starred out while another isn't.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#15 - 2014-03-19 15:43:44 UTC
Samuel Caldara wrote:
You have to be in an alliance to hold sovereignty.


I don't think this is strictly true.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#16 - 2014-03-19 15:56:25 UTC
Samuel Caldara wrote:
You have to be in an coalition to hold sovereignty.


here i fixed it for you. There are currently Two null coalitions CFC and N3-PL. Each of them can field 100+ supercaps, seweral hundreds of normal capitals and countles subcaps in single engagement. Only exception is provi block which is let alone by those two because its funny. Otherwise there is snowflakes chance in hell to any corporation to hold its own sov.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#17 - 2014-03-19 16:08:35 UTC
Anni Hil-Ator wrote:
I recently saw an "influence" map which roughly shows how much territory is controlled by various corporations.

What I'm wondering is... how much firepower do these various corporations? Perhaps it could be put in terms of the ISK value for their active fleets + defenses of their POS? This would assume the amount of pilots they could get online should their systems come under attack.

And what kind of war fleets do these corporations have? I can't imagine that every one of these corporations have a full compliment of capital class ships. Am I under the wrong impression about this? I'd imagine that some of these corporations have mostly just battleships. But I really don't know. I'm just trying to get an idea of the range of power exhibited by these various corporations which hold sovereignty.


Where were you during the epic Super building period of 2010? Ten to twenty Supers is nothing for the average 0.0 pvp corp now.

Signature removed - CCP Eterne

Hoshi Sorano
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-03-19 18:52:52 UTC
Short answer? At least 1% more than everyone else who wants to take the system from you.

It all depends on how desirable your corner of space is, who your neighbors are, and what they can/will bring against you. If you're in some low end system that no one wants, there may be little contest over it. However, if you hold a strategic or economic lynchpin, you had better be ready to defend it.
Doireen Kaundur
Doomheim
#19 - 2014-03-19 18:56:23 UTC
Im more curious to know how such large outfits are managed. The logistics must be a nightmare.

_[center]For your Freighter **sized shipping needs, contact _[u]Lord Chanlin[/u].** _ Fast, affordable, reliable service._

https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/Lord%20Chanlin[/center]

Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#20 - 2014-03-19 21:32:21 UTC
Right now, all of it.

Seriously.

No troll.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

12Next page