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New Order Mining Permits Now Worthless?

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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2014-03-19 03:19:06 UTC
Arancar Australis wrote:


Why is it so hard to just say "I don't like the way you play" or "I only want to gank you to wreck your enjoyment of the game" - it works fine for Goons who are considered such a lovely bunch of space faring hippies Roll



ha colorful and free spirited with their pixie dust and unicorns and ponys, the Goons are such a luvable bunch that I want to run up and hugzz every single one of them :D
Arancar Australis
Dead Sun Rising Enterprises
#82 - 2014-03-19 03:19:56 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Arancar Australis wrote:

You have a very narrow definition of playing right? P

I remember playing a turn based space game that involved sending my moves/actions to a central person via mail (yes the internet hasn't been around since the beginning of time). It was a slow torturous process but it was longer than i would take when doing mining, i was doing the same amount of actions as when i mine. So would you say that i wasn't a player as i was interacting less in my mail turn based game?


Of course not, because that's how your game works. Played my share of "play by mail" in my day. It's not a failure to be a player to wait your turn in cards, either, before anyone whips out that tired old line.

EVE is not a turn based game, however.


Quote:

I agree some of the language that is used by both sides is a lot to be desired. You even use the word "Crime" or "bot aspirant" to give the playing style of the other player a negative connatation. But yet there is no crime committed or intent to aspire to be a bot, but by labelling it as such it makes it eaiser to rally the forces against the person.

Why is it so hard to just say "I don't like the way you play" or "I only want to gank you to wreck your enjoyment of the game" - it works fine for Goons who are considered such a lovely bunch of space faring hippies Roll

Sometimes we make the game harder than what it needs to be.


You can dissemble all you please, but one of those groups is engaging in legitimate gameplay, while one is making threats and using language that is against the EULA.

There is no moral equivalency between the two groups. One group are players, one group are real-life threatening, obscenity-spouting slime.



Kaarous, you need to step back and take a breath mate, because if you read my sentence "I agree some of the language that is used by both sides is a lot to be desired". I should have separated both to be a bit more cleaer on that Big smile

What i would point out is that yes, Eve is not a turn based game and the one i played in that format was due to how the game was designed, but you argued my point for me. There is nothing within the design of Eve that expressly prevents the style of play that the Code is advocating against. In fact Eve allows it with very little prevention.

Where the design beauty of Eve is that it also allows you the ability to take matters into your own hands and do something about the playstyle that you see as being "non complaint to the Code"....and for it is worth, more power to you because that is what i enjoy about this game, the ability to do virtually anything within the outer limits of this game design.

But i will reiterate, i totally agree that wishing harm or injury to a person or to people that you know is totally abhorrent.


So if you want to gank me because i am mining and appear to be afk or semi-afk, go for it as i accept it as being part of the game and you will get a well done from me and a sheepish grin for having lost a ship because this is only a game that i play for my own sense of enjoyment.


Cheers,

AA
Arancar Australis
Dead Sun Rising Enterprises
#83 - 2014-03-19 03:21:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Arancar Australis
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Arancar Australis wrote:


Why is it so hard to just say "I don't like the way you play" or "I only want to gank you to wreck your enjoyment of the game" - it works fine for Goons who are considered such a lovely bunch of space faring hippies Roll



ha colorful and free spirited with their pixie dust and unicorns and ponys, the Goons are such a luvable bunch that I want to run up and hugzz every single one of them :D



Just make sure you have body protection, i hear that pixie dust is very addictive once it gets into your pores Lol
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#84 - 2014-03-19 03:23:46 UTC
Arancar Australis wrote:
There is nothing within the design of Eve that expressly prevents the style of play that the Code is advocating against. In fact Eve allows it with very little prevention.


And that would be the problem that we're trying to fix.

Quote:
But i will reiterate, i totally agree that wishing harm or injury to a person or to people that you know is totally abhorrent.


So if you want to gank me because i am mining and appear to be afk or semi-afk, go for it as i accept it as being part of the game and you will get a well done from me and a sheepish grin for having lost a ship because this is only a game that i play for my own sense of enjoyment.


Good.

And as for the second part, that's the attitude we're trying for in the first place. Buy yourself a permit and you'll be set.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Arancar Australis
Dead Sun Rising Enterprises
#85 - 2014-03-19 03:25:12 UTC
Mara Denais wrote:
Arancar Australis wrote:

I remember playing a turn based space game that involved sending my moves/actions to a central person via mail (yes the internet hasn't been around since the beginning of time).


Oh damn, i forgot about that one. Remind me on the name, please?
I'm stuck with a a lame token-ring LAN-8086 game and i'm sure it's the wrong one :(



For the life of me i cannot remember the name either...it's a goons conspiracy to make me forget (isn't that what i am supposed to day?)
Arancar Australis
Dead Sun Rising Enterprises
#86 - 2014-03-19 03:27:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Arancar Australis
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Arancar Australis wrote:
There is nothing within the design of Eve that expressly prevents the style of play that the Code is advocating against. In fact Eve allows it with very little prevention.


And that would be the problem that we're trying to fix.

Quote:
But i will reiterate, i totally agree that wishing harm or injury to a person or to people that you know is totally abhorrent.


So if you want to gank me because i am mining and appear to be afk or semi-afk, go for it as i accept it as being part of the game and you will get a well done from me and a sheepish grin for having lost a ship because this is only a game that i play for my own sense of enjoyment.


Good.

And as for the second part, that's the attitude we're trying for in the first place. Buy yourself a permit and you'll be set.



I don't see it as a problem, but no point in arguing. We both have an opposing opinion on the matter, but i wont wish anything nasty on you or yours about it, because it's just a game...but i'll buy you a beverage of your choice and laugh with you about the stupidity of serious players. Lol

Buy a permit you say...you do know that us Aussies are stubborn and laugh in the face of supposed authority, right? P


Cheers,

AA
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2014-03-19 03:32:19 UTC
Arancar Australis wrote:
Mara Denais wrote:
Arancar Australis wrote:

I remember playing a turn based space game that involved sending my moves/actions to a central person via mail (yes the internet hasn't been around since the beginning of time).


Oh damn, i forgot about that one. Remind me on the name, please?
I'm stuck with a a lame token-ring LAN-8086 game and i'm sure it's the wrong one :(



For the life of me i cannot remember the name either...it's a goons conspiracy to make me forget (isn't that what i am supposed to day?)



play by mail ? How modern.

Back in the day we used to play Gamma World on tabletop. I still have a circa 1979 box set somewhere.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#88 - 2014-03-19 03:32:48 UTC
lol, were they ever worth anything?

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2014-03-19 03:33:36 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Good.

And as for the second part, that's the attitude we're trying for in the first place. Buy yourself a permit and you'll be set.
It was all good till the "buy a permit" part as that has nothing to do with being or not being AFK. Even so, since AFK is not only enabled, but designed (and furthermore buffed not too long ago in the case of autopilot) into the game, you can't even objectively say AFK'ing is bad.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#90 - 2014-03-19 03:33:57 UTC
Arancar Australis wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Arancar Australis wrote:

Don't hide behind some higher calling or some misguided notion that an AFK player harms the game (as an AFK player has no effect on your game play). Be honest and upfront and change the manifesto to " We do not like that you do not play the game in the way we believe that you should be playing, so we will do what we can to enforce our ideal of game style and replace yours with it".

For my part, i'll keep mining in my own way - minus a permit. If i get ganked or bumped, I accept that as being part of the game and will go back and reship or jump back to my asteroid friends (as they dont have delusions of holy relevance). P

Cheers,

AA


AFK generation of resources (whether done by EULA-compliant methods or outright botting) does indeed have an effect on the gameplay of others.

It reduces mineral prices, increases supercapital proliferation, and as such increases the power of nullsec entities that can field supercapital fleets at the expense of nullsec entities that don't have supercap fleets and aspiring future nullsec entities.


Isn't it ironic that, for all that the New Order get called 'Goon Pets' because of James' former affiliation with Goons and his continuing friendship with Mittens, the activities of the NO (both blowing up barges, and reporting the bot miners) actually harm the Goons.



To use your own reasoning then, the reduction of the mineral prices which allows those large null sec alliances to buy more capitals would also allow those smaller alliances to also acquire supercapitals as they are now at a cheaper cost to buy. (yes, i know, my arguement is not strong and easily argued against, but i hope you would get my meaning Big smile )

Since after all, not much is stated when the Code is about doing their holy work, that they are keeping the prices of minerals higher to prevent the large Nullsec alliances from acquiring more firepower.

As to the old line of James=mittens=goon pets, i've never subscribed to it as i don't know or really care if it is true or not. As far as i am concerned, the Code. players are ones whoa re playing the game as they see fit to play, irrespective of their affliation on a main. To be honest i would equate James to Jim Bakker, tv evangelist icon Big smile

All in all this is a game open to all forms of playstyles and opinions...and also open to people doing something about their opinions ingame.

Cheers,

AA

P.S. I don't know about you but i am seeing this whole tpopic as being fun Lol and worry about those who are so gung ho about it.



Smaller entities cannot protect Capital Ship Assembly Arrays as easily as large ones with long-held sov can. That is why lower supercap build costs favor larger, established entities over new ones.

James doesn't hide his support for Mittens. But he's not subject to Goons alliance 'discipline', which (from my reading of the situation as an outsider) seems less than that of other entities - Goons' philosophy seems to be more along the lines of 'do whatever you want for the lulz except things that directly hurt our war efforts'. Indirectly hurting them seems OK.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#91 - 2014-03-19 03:35:16 UTC
Arancar Australis wrote:
Buy a permit you say...you do know that us Aussies are stubborn and laugh in the face of supposed authority, right? P


Cheers,

AA



I'm an Aussie, and I accept James' authority over highsec.

Because James makes ships explode, and exploding ships make EVE fun.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#92 - 2014-03-19 03:40:18 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Arancar Australis wrote:
Buy a permit you say...you do know that us Aussies are stubborn and laugh in the face of supposed authority, right? P


Cheers,

AA



I'm an Aussie, and I accept James' authority over highsec.

Because James makes ships explode, and exploding ships make EVE fun.


You should invest then ...

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=141127&find=unread

Goons are all Unicorns and Hippies forget them.
Arancar Australis
Dead Sun Rising Enterprises
#93 - 2014-03-19 04:17:44 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Arancar Australis wrote:
Buy a permit you say...you do know that us Aussies are stubborn and laugh in the face of supposed authority, right? P


Cheers,

AA



I'm an Aussie, and I accept James' authority over highsec.

Because James makes ships explode, and exploding ships make EVE fun.


Convicts
Rum Rebellion
Eureka Stockade


You sure you are an Aussie? Roll

(And i know you know i am just pulling your leg...i hope Shocked )
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#94 - 2014-03-19 04:29:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Arancar Australis wrote:

Convicts
Rum Rebellion
Eureka Stockade

You sure you are an Aussie? Roll
Name me a single Australian involved in any of those activities?

Hint, not a single convict was Australian. They were British.

Since those times, we have become cultured and even formed our own nation. As an Australian you should embrace our break from the uncouth English.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2014-03-19 04:38:05 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Arancar Australis wrote:
Buy a permit you say...you do know that us Aussies are stubborn and laugh in the face of supposed authority, right? P


Cheers,

AA



I'm an Aussie, and I accept James' authority over highsec.

it's ok. Some people just NEED to follow somebody. You know: the world is complex and harsh. You NEED somebody to give you orders and be your leader.

By becoming stronger you will be able to choose your own way.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Arancar Australis
Dead Sun Rising Enterprises
#96 - 2014-03-19 04:47:55 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Arancar Australis wrote:

Convicts
Rum Rebellion
Eureka Stockade

You sure you are an Aussie? Roll
Name me a single Australian involved in any of those activities?

Hint, not a single convict was Australian. They were British.

Since those times, we have become cultured and even formed our own nation. As an Australian you should embrace our break from the uncouth English.


Let me go grab a beer while those uncouth English ruffians have a discussion with you about their uncouthness Big smile.

I always find it amusing that the Americans rebel over a tax on tea while we rebelled over rum...go figure Big smile
Kyperion
#97 - 2014-03-19 04:55:30 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Arancar Australis wrote:
Buy a permit you say...you do know that us Aussies are stubborn and laugh in the face of supposed authority, right? P


Cheers,

AA



I'm an Aussie, and I accept James' authority over highsec.

it's ok. Some people just NEED to follow somebody. You know: the world is complex and harsh. You NEED somebody to give you orders and be your leader.

By becoming stronger you will be able to choose your own way.



This is why I find New Order and Goon filth so laughably contemptable. In a game about 'sandbox' and freedom, they choose to submit themselves to some kind of masochistic cyber-cult.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2014-03-19 05:00:31 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:

Hint, not a single convict was Australian. They were British.



Maybe at the time of transportation.

But transport to Western Australia continued well into the 1860's. There are quite a number of individuals who died around the time of the first World War (and hence officially were definitely Australian) who were original transported here as convicts.
Kyperion
#99 - 2014-03-19 05:01:34 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
So does a pure manufacturer not play the game?

Certainly. Especially because they aren't undocked in open space pretending that they are actually playing.
Wait, so let me get this strait. Being undocked and active (which is debatable because one can be looking at the client while not issuing inputs) is the defining point for playing, but removing undocking removes the obligation to be active? Seems like "bot aspirant" is just a meaningless justification here, and not an RP one. If you want to RP someone who likes ganking barges, fine. If you don't want to RP but still like ganking barges, fine. But denigrating players for some BS reasons? Kinda justifies the flak you get as you are perpetuating the mud slinging.



No, I highly doubt it justifies them making real life threats and saying they hope I get cancer, and so forth.

And yes, it works exactly like that. A manufacturer is rarely logged in, but while he is he is actively engaged in playing the game. A miner likely is not, while being undocked in open space. The crime is far greater.

I'm not denigrating players, btw. Because they're not actually playing.


For all the mudslining Miners supposedly do, you and your fellows do a lot more on these forums.

you rarely show any proof of these supposed real life threats you recieve "all the time."

Nobody on the forums has "IRL" threatened you, only completely blasted your silly little justification for only PVPing noncombat ships.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#100 - 2014-03-19 05:06:48 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Arancar Australis wrote:
Buy a permit you say...you do know that us Aussies are stubborn and laugh in the face of supposed authority, right? P


Cheers,

AA



I'm an Aussie, and I accept James' authority over highsec.

it's ok. Some people just NEED to follow somebody. You know: the world is complex and harsh. You NEED somebody to give you orders and be your leader.

By becoming stronger you will be able to choose your own way.



This is why I find New Order and Goon filth so laughably contemptable. In a game about 'sandbox' and freedom, they choose to submit themselves to some kind of masochistic cyber-cult.






No different to the real world 70's punks who claimed to be about "anarchy" but were actually xenophobic nationalistic neo-fascists :D


That said, a sandbox game does not mean everyone gets to do what they want when and where they want to. It just means a lot of the structure and content in game evolves through play. The concept of "renters" in bluesec for example was probably never even dreamed of by any of the devs.