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Wormholes

 
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why listen tp pvp wormholers over pve?

Author
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#61 - 2014-03-17 20:37:26 UTC
Proclus Diadochu wrote:
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante wrote:


Please stop just listening to PvP wormhole players.


I promise to vote for you, if you can learn to use the quote box correctly.

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Titan's Lament

Riel Saigo
Facta.Non.Verba
#62 - 2014-03-18 16:01:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Riel Saigo
Whether the OP was able to communicate it well is another issue. But I also kind of sympathize with the general thrust of the gripe. Small gang PvP perspective is overrepresented in the wormhole advocacy community. But I don't think it's really all that much of a conspiracy or anything, it's more a combination of things:

1. Down the Pipe - one of the most popular podcasts for WH space is small-gang PvP centric, and they'll freely tell you so.

2. If you get a successful industrialist in WH space, they tend to keep their mouths shut about it. Number 1, they don't want competitors hearing that there is good business to be had in the J-sigs and cutting in on their market share, and Number 2, they don't want to blab about how rich they are and make themselves Skyfighters' next target, or whoever.

Industry is generally unrepresented in the vocal Eve community as a whole, and not just WH space. This is because an industrial career generally works tons better low-profile. Better profit margins, less hassle and so forth. Honestly, I think industrialists are some of the most ruthless PvPers in the entire game, playing with far higher stakes than PvPers in WH space ever will. You actually can gank someone in Jita out of billions of ISK without ever undocking if you know the market well enough. Honestly, the really good industrialists scare me more than anyone else in this game.

But that aside, I think that having more industrialists in WH space is a good thing for PvPers too. For one thing, it's obviously more targets - even if they are targets that tend to hide in POS shields at the first sight of a Buzzard on D-scan, they are nonetheless, still more targets and opportunities.

But more than that, industrialists pay the bills for WH space and for WH alliances. A lot of WH-ers would rather not think about this and would rather be planning their next roam. But it does pay the bills, and any successful wormhole alliance has a vested interest in the profitability of wormhole industry. And it won't do to be too dismissive of the industrialists in your own alliance.

Reading between the lines, I heard Longinius Spear almost admitting as much on Down the Pipe when he was describing the collapse of Semper Ubi Subi. The PvPers got too big-headed and started trashing on the people paying the bills who weren't as into small gang skirmishing. Before the collapse of the organization, he was also talking in earlier episodes about Semper Ubi Subi looking for new alliance members to add something different and do something different than his PvP-centric band of space bros. To me, that indicates the cracks were already forming, even back then, and his organization was paying the price for being too PvP centered.

Actually, saying it was too PvP-centered is misleading. Because, as I said, industry certainly can be PvP in every sense of the word.

To me - the "best" WH corp is the one that is most successful at paying bills, motivating pilots, organizing its resources, out-earning its competition, and successful in the application of force in a variety of circumstances - shooting space guns being not least of them.

It's short-sighted for any WH corp or alliance to focus only on small gang gunfights and lose sight of the bigger picture. And I think the OP is at least right in noticing that that is where the current representation and focus tends to be.
Riel Saigo
Facta.Non.Verba
#63 - 2014-03-18 16:11:49 UTC
I mean, at the recent WH roundtable, Chitsa tried to bring up turning Black Holes into industry-focused systems as a possibility, and just about all the PvPers there completely blew him off.
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#64 - 2014-03-18 16:39:03 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
Proclus Diadochu wrote:
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante wrote:


Please stop just listening to PvP wormhole players.


I promise to vote for you, if you can learn to use the quote box correctly.


When answering questions, I remove the whole content of a quote, then leave the quote, so a person knows the section pertains to them, then bold their questions and answer. Mostly started doing this to reduce the extended boxes when I answer multiple quoted questions. Most people have given positive feedback on that style Big smile

And thank you!

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Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#65 - 2014-03-18 16:51:27 UTC
@Riel Saigo. Good points.


And as much as I enjoy blowing up ships, I've spent a lot of time bearing. And on that other side (industry, incursions, missions) people are as equally dismissive of PVP (ganking, gang, blob warfare). They, as mentioned, tend not to speak up about it (as wardecs, ganks, and general attention from PVP focused groups tends to crimp their playstyle).