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Wormholes

 
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New Timer for Wormholes

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Mcpate
Unknown Means Unknown Consequenses
#21 - 2014-03-18 11:10:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Mcpate
Pretty stupid idea overall if you ask me..and you did. I guess it is for those not good enough to get it done while the target is in the hole.

Edit:
I think its time for some of these "new Idea" people to move on to WOT, WOW or whatever the FK they want to play while waiting for someone else to 'create their content' or fix the game to work the way they want.

I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell. Harry S. Truman
RcTamiya Leontis
Magister Mortalis.
#22 - 2014-03-18 11:31:53 UTC
Mcpate wrote:
Pretty stupid idea overall if you ask me..and you did. I guess it is for those not good enough to get it done while the target is in the hole.

Edit:
I think its time for some of these "new Idea" people to move on to WOT, WOW or whatever the FK they want to play while waiting for someone else to 'create their content' or fix the game to work the way they want.



Can you explain why you dislike this idea ?

I only see arguments for this idea here while contraside only says " cuz its stupid"
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-03-18 11:58:01 UTC
Bob Artis wrote:

Rek Seven wrote:
No thanks. Wormhole space doesn't need anymore timers and it's good that the current timers are relatively simple to understand.


Wormholes have fewer timer then K-space at the moment. That's not really a good argument.


That's your opinion but i think that a lot of people would agree that wormhole space is the best space because the mechanics and timers surrounding them are pretty simple.

Just look at wormhole space as being in international waters. You can't legally reprimand someone for what they did in said waters, when the reach land.

At the end of the day, i would be pretty silly if CCP changed the timers at this point.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2014-03-18 12:14:34 UTC
Wow, people are getting really desperate or something.

Don't like HS wormhole games? Don't play them.

IMO this mechanic swings the pendulum too far to one side and has consequences beyond just the silly HS combat games.

So now I can just camp a HS WH in a stealth bomber. Any type of hauler that comes through all I have to do is tag it once, then follow it back thru the WH for an easy gank.

That can already be done in LS or 0.0 wormholes. It's a bit over the top to extend that to HS ones.
mechform
#25 - 2014-03-18 12:21:23 UTC
Right now, there is no consequence for hanging out on a hs wh, trying to pvp, then just jumping out into HS when you find out you made a mistake.

This 'timer' will add a consequence to an action, which is what eve is pretty good at marketing.

In regards to the hauling stuff out of a wh, as with all things wh, don't be stupid and you will be fine.

Black Power - Brotha's in space unite!
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-03-18 12:27:23 UTC
mechform wrote:
Right now, there is no consequence for hanging out on a hs wh, trying to pvp, then just jumping out into HS when you find out you made a mistake.

This 'timer' will add a consequence to an action, which is what eve is pretty good at marketing.

In regards to the hauling stuff out of a wh, as with all things wh, don't be stupid and you will be fine.


Please.

One could also use the time honored argument to say, a consequence to living in a WH with a HS static is that you will alway have one exit that cannot be easily camped. Don't like it then move to a WH without a HS static and at least then you only have to worry about the random HS connections.

Bottom line is that there are far more WH's going to 0.0, LS, or other wormholes than there are HS connections to begin with. I don't see how we need some extra mechanic to cater to that one.
mechform
#27 - 2014-03-18 12:32:10 UTC  |  Edited by: mechform
Agreed, and we have had some great fights through those kinds of holes.

If your going to jump into a wh to pew, there has to be consequence. Just because there are holes we can already do that does not negate the fact the the hs wh should be left alone. If you aggro somebody then jump to hs, you are free from consequence?

It happens in null to hs all the time, all you have to do is de-aggro wait your timer than you can jump. Same thing should apply for wh--> to Kspace jumps. Not as strict as in the wh will not allow you to jump, but if you are smart you can easily get away, or de-aggro and tank the timer.

Black Power - Brotha's in space unite!
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-03-18 12:32:19 UTC
Tell you what. Here's and alternative which can help without taking it too far. For one I highly doubt CCP would ever implement anything that stops concord intervention short of the current mechanics (wardecs, duels etc).

for HS connected wormholes, when you jump through, you land say 30km from the hole. That way at least if you can catch the people jumping in, all you gotta do is be able to web them down before they can burn back 30km and you are good.
mechform
#29 - 2014-03-18 12:36:23 UTC
Please.

4k is plenty of space and time to get away.

Black Power - Brotha's in space unite!
RcTamiya Leontis
Magister Mortalis.
#30 - 2014-03-18 12:37:08 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
mechform wrote:
Right now, there is no consequence for hanging out on a hs wh, trying to pvp, then just jumping out into HS when you find out you made a mistake.

This 'timer' will add a consequence to an action, which is what eve is pretty good at marketing.

In regards to the hauling stuff out of a wh, as with all things wh, don't be stupid and you will be fine.


Please.

One could also use the time honored argument to say, a consequence to living in a WH with a HS static is that you will alway have one exit that cannot be easily camped. Don't like it then move to a WH without a HS static and at least then you only have to worry about the random HS connections.

Bottom line is that there are far more WH's going to 0.0, LS, or other wormholes than there are HS connections to begin with. I don't see how we need some extra mechanic to cater to that one.



to get rid of 0 risk pvp as mentioned earlier
of course if you can alpha the campers, there is a risk, sadly not everybody can alpha a camper ;)

I rather have a 5 minute combat timer in wspace in general once i shot a target ( so yes haulers can jump back and are safe, why ? because if they dont get pointed or click warp while in a warp bubble they shouldn't have a timer, right ? )
This is such a simple solution you all should be happy with : pvp has consequences as usual, for haulers and running fags nothing changed for HS wh related stuff
On the other hand, I can understand that a lot peopel dislike this mechanic, most mentioned reason here is " haulers will be too easy to gank etc" so i ask you here, where is the difference compared to a low sec exit in that case for the hauler ?
If you complain about that, don't forget that its allready 66% of kspace exits with a mechanic like that and this additonal timer will make it a 100%
Humang
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#31 - 2014-03-18 12:44:03 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Tell you what. Here's and alternative which can help without taking it too far. For one I highly doubt CCP would ever implement anything that stops concord intervention short of the current mechanics (wardecs, duels etc).

for HS connected wormholes, when you jump through, you land say 30km from the hole. That way at least if you can catch the people jumping in, all you gotta do is be able to web them down before they can burn back 30km and you are good.

Wouldn't that make catching anything with a cov-ops cloak all the more difficult?

AFK cloaking thread Summary - Provided by Paikis Good Post Etiquette - Provided by CCP Grayscale
mechform
#32 - 2014-03-18 12:49:18 UTC
For some well thought out reason, hs wh's have to kick you out farther than any other system transition in the game.

Black Power - Brotha's in space unite!
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation
Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
#33 - 2014-03-18 12:56:58 UTC
I think there's too many timers in the top left as is tbh, I don't really want to see another one. If you really want this, throw a limited engagement timer on like shooting someone in LS gives you. Saves extra work and extra UI elements as the system is already there. After all, they can't be seen by Concord for everyone, not just you hunting them from WH space. Let everyone take a shot.

Also isn't this just going to push the session change games off the WH to the station? It's not going to take long for people to learn to run/cloak straight away. Anyone who's been in W-Space a little bit does that now. They're just going to start doing that upon returning to HS.

I do agree that HS WH games are annoying though :/

And while we're on it and the other thread is up, a change to the recalibration timer to be something dynamic based off the ship rather than a constant for all would be nice. Personally I'd like to see it be Sensor Strength, higher the faster you can return. It'd give a reason for ECCM modules to be used outside making falcon pilots cry.

And pro tip from someone who works in the games industry, no one reads things like pop ups, ever. Period. If people did you wouldn't be getting the modern tutorial style, you'd be getting a popup with everything on how to control the game.
Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#34 - 2014-03-18 13:21:38 UTC
Yay, more timers! ... Ugh
Consider the area around a high sec hole to be part of highsec and just ignore them like you would ignore any other ship in highsec.
They only sit there because people are stupid enough to give them fights.
Jay Joringer
13.
#35 - 2014-03-18 13:35:05 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
No thanks. Wormhole space doesn't need anymore timers and it's good that the current timers are relatively simple to understand.

If you don't want some to exploit fighting on a highsec wormhole, either don't fight them or bait them off it. There are much interesting things CCP could be spending their time on.


^This.

If you can't work with the current mechanics, adjust yourselves to the system instead of adjusting the system to yourself.

http://smug-bastard.blogspot.co.uk

13 are recruiting!
mechform
#36 - 2014-03-18 13:49:51 UTC  |  Edited by: mechform
This is true, if its not broken why fix it. am i right?

This is not a big issue, its just really more of a discussion. It seems to me that every action in-game has a consequence.

If I engage someone in Null sec, i can't jump a gate or dock for 60 seconds.

If i engage someone in HS, i get concorded and will loose my ship.

If I engage someone in HS that i am at war with, i can't jump a gate or dock for 60 seconds.

If i engage someone on a wh and jump through I have a chance to get tackled on the other side.

If i engage someone on a wh then jump into hs, there is no consequence.

There are other scenarios we can discuss, but they all wind up with a player either being committed to the fight, or at least a chance to be committed.

If the mechanic of jumping into hs to get away is/was done on purpose, then it should stay and we can continue ignoring it. If its just an oversight by a programmer, developer, game lead. Then it should be changed in order to be aligned with the rest of the mechanics surrounding in-game consequences.

Black Power - Brotha's in space unite!
Krackie
Segmentum Solar
#37 - 2014-03-18 14:02:10 UTC
I quite like the idea but maybe have it so you have to engage within maybe 30 seconds to activate the extended timer etc. Allowing anyone who gets away from the hole pretty much safety. (at the risk of making things even more complex)

Bo Jangles of EN24
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-03-18 14:06:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
^^ But not having to deal with those aggression mechanics is one of the things i love about wormhole space. Don't you feel the same?

You have plenty of options to fight on HS wormholes including baiting people off the wormhole, using an alpha fleet to kill hostiles before they jump, closing the wormhole on them, bump them or simply ignore them. .

A better request would be a tractor beam that pulls ships towards it. Twisted... But Jack Mitton would have a stroke if he saw such a thing. Ugh

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
mechform
#39 - 2014-03-18 14:15:37 UTC  |  Edited by: mechform
These are all great suggestions, except for the tractor beam. Thats just crae crae.

Please.

Black Power - Brotha's in space unite!
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
Kvitravn.
#40 - 2014-03-18 14:23:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Sephira Galamore
I liked it at first but giving it more thought.. what would change if we introduce this mechanic?
- HS wormhole games would stop at least in their current form, that's content lost for those that engaged in them and nothing changed for those that didn't care
- A new form of HS camping could come up, but that would be very similar to any other WH camping
- There's a new timer, yay!

People that want to actually fight can do so now.
Trying to get ~elite pvpers~ to go for a more fun fight is a nice idea but it won't work. If you take one avenue from them, they'll just move on to another.